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greater, external air and more window space, but that, of course, raised the question of❘ compensation.
The adjacent property owners, whose property would be enhanced in value thereby, would surely be asked to contribute to that com. pensation P
THE HONGKONG WEEKLY PRESS AND
Yes. These houses were built years ago without any regard to sanitary requirements. Of course they had to comply with the law of that time. The land, it should be remembered, was sold by the Government on condition that it be laid out in conformity with the laws of the Colony. There was no Public | Yes. That is where the difficulty is. By the Health or Buildings Ordinance then with such | new Ordinance those properties can only accom-stringeut regulations as to-day, consequently modate eight on a floor instead of fourteen or when people were invited to purchase land put fifteen as before, and the buildings not up for sale by the Government they naturally having the same letting capacity as previously made the most of their land. It was sold in the would not yield an adequate return for this open market for as much as it would bring over additional outlay.
and above the upset price, and in later years when the city is found to be overcrowded from
But better houses should produce higher ronta P
Yes, ordinarily, but among the Chinese it is impossible. The cost of living has increased very much within recent years, and rent absorbs such an inordinate proportion of their wages that they cannot afford to pay more.
I see. But don't you think it possible to build cheaper, houses than at present ?
No. Land is dearer, the price of materials and labour is higher, and to get a fair return for money invested it is impossible to erect houses for which a less rent of $20 a month per flat could be charged. I will show you how it works. (Here Mr. Lau Chu-pak entered into calculations.) You cannot charge less than $2, a month for a flat in a place nearer the town, That divided among the eight people usually inhabiting such a room is $2 per individual. That amount from the wages of a coolie earning about $8 or $9 a month is a serious item, and leaves very little on which to live. He really cannot afford to pay any more for rent.
Just so. It is admitted that the existing state of affairs is very unsatisfactory. What is being done to remedy it?
Nothing, so fr as I know.
And can nothing be done?
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sanitary point of view the Government and the public generally are only too ready to blame the poor owners, forgetting that the owners are to-day paying the Government by way of premnim and Crown rent for what they got, and the Government also derives the benefit from the extra rates assessed on the enhanced rentals.
About the property resumed ?
The Government, in resuming such insanitary property, have only to pay the market value apart from certain illegal or undesirable con. ditions which enhance its value.
But in effecting such clearances, is the result not to overcrowd districts that are already densely populated? Is not that inevitable?
No. That would apply if there were not suficient unoccupied tenements in the Colony to accommodate all those who have been displaced. Were there no houses to which these people could go there would certainly be great hardship entailed in carrying out the resumption of in- sanitary property. If the demand for houses were greater than the supply and the rents became abnormally inflated, of course the owners would benefit, but such is not the case to-day. I venture to say there are some hundreds of
Not unless the Government takes the matter tenements in the Colony to-day ready to receive in hand.
And build houses, you mean ? Yes?
Do you think they could do it as cheaply as private speculators ?
Well, they would have no ground to buy. But it would only be fair that the Govern. ment should put itself on the same footing as other speculators. Do you think they could build houses without incurring any monetary loss P
Undoubtedly they could. The Government might not receive the same amount of return on money expended as private speculators would expect, but there would be the gain of housing the people under sanitary conditions and removing the dangers to public health which exist at present. Moreover, the Government conld carry out its own ideas more effec- tively than private builders. At present the Chinese builders suffer all sorts of harassments and hesitate to begin such under- takings.
Are the mass of people worse off bere in respect of accommodation than, say, Canton P
Yes In Canton there are practically no three-storied buildings, and families can rent a fist or whole house, which is better lighted and ventilated than those in Hongkong, for consider. ably less than what they pay here for a cubicle. As I said once before, the Chinese are not to blame for this style of building. It is not Chinese, and it would be interesting to know who introduced this style of architecture.
And so you think the only hope of remedying the existing evils is for the Government to take sation ?
Yes.
Suoh were Mr. Lau Chu-pak's views.
SECOND INTERVIEW,
In our previous interview, we gaye the opinions of a Chinese publicist. Here we have the point of view of an English member of the Sanitary Board, who appreciates the position of the landlord.
Mr. Shelton Hooper, when waited upon by our reporter, expressed his opinion on the subject very freely.
The resumption of property, as indicated in the Daily Press yesterday, is not carried out simply because the people are overcrowded there but also because the houses are crowded together.
Because they are insanitary ?
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people displaced.
But apparently the displaced people don't take advantage of these vacant houses. What do you think is their objection to them F
The Chinese like to crowd together. It is "Olo custom". They object to remove from their old baunts. When the resumptions were contemplated, buildings were erected extensively in different parts of the city, but the houses are still empty.
And the Government hoped to get the people to move outwards from the city when they made it a condition that the Tramway Company should run workman's trams ?
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(May 14, 1906.
THIRD INTERVIEW, Not the least important point of view from which to regard the housing question:'in Hongkong is undoubtedly that of the Chinese themselves, and we have be en fortunate enough of learn something of that lay opinion in our third interview, which was with one whose g-neral intelligence and education raises him above the average and at the same time euables him to speak with an intimate knowledge of how the people of the lower classes live in the colony.
What kind of people are to be found in dats accommodating eight persons?
Mostly coolies.
And if their share of the rent be only two and a half dollars per month each they are not so badly off, that is, if their earnings average $9. or $10 per month ?
That is so.
Well, how do those who are ranked a little higher in the social scale fare-the olerks, managers of Chinese shope, salesmen, buyers, Chinese writers, and so op?
month.
They may earn on an average about $20 These people ought to be fairly comfortable then ?
Not married people.
Oh. I see. What happens in their case ?
Suppose a man have wife and two or three children. There being four or five persons they cannot live in a cubicle. The man bave to take room in one fist, and at the most there can be only three rooms in one fat. The rent of the flat being $20, he has to pay as his proportion 36 to 88 per month.
Just so.
He may have to pay $3 to $4 a month an wages for a maidservant or amab, while he also has to provide food for the family.
How much would that cost. P About $4 to $5 a head.
But I thought a Chinaman could live for about 83 a month?
He could at one time, but cost of living has
of living increased very much.
In these circumstances a married man earning $20 and having to support a family should be insolvent ?
Yes, many are in debt. Rents are, however, cheaper out at Wanchai and many people go
there.
Then I suppose most of the married men find it cheaper to send their wives and families to the country, while they themselves rent a cubicle or rather so-called cubicle ?
Yes, the Government hoped thereby to miti Many men do so; especially those employed gate the overcrowding, but so far that has not in shops, as the masters and them lodgings, resulted. The Government having been lax in en-food, and even pay for the shaving of their bonds. forcing the provisions of the Ordinance against You can judge for yourself what is the cost of A schoolboy coming from the country overcrowding, the people have remained where livin. they were. The attention of the Sanitary Board to Hongkong to be educated is boarded in some was called to the matter and the Authorities house, and the charge is usually from $7 to $10 have since shown greater activity in enforcing a month If the charge is only $7 the chow these regulations,
must be very poor.
And you think no hardship is oreated! So far as I can see, no. They may suffer inconvenience by having to move outwards and walk a little to their work, but by being dispersed and going to live in thors houses in the outlying districts it will cost them no more to live. Renta there are cheaper than in the central district, and it would be no inconvenienos for them to walk a mile or half-a-mile. The British work- man has to do it,
You suggest that the cost of tramway fares if they chose to ride, would be compensated by
the reduced rents?
Yes i
and if they chose to walk theywould make money. Ofcourse, this does not apply to Shauki. wan or other distant villages. That would be too far for them to walk to work. The further you get from the centre the cheaper the rents. When the regulations against overcrowding are enforced and the people cannot find accommo dation, then will be the time to cry out, but at present Wanchai district is overbuilt.
In anticipation of the overcrowding regulations being carried out owners have provided houses
in the outlying districts.
Then, to sum up, you assert that no hardship results to the Chinese by these properties being resumed?
I do. There can be no hardship while there are hundreds of empty houses within easy
This ended the interview.
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Then on your showing a man sarning 820 month cannot support a family ?
No, except those who live in Kowloon or the extreme east and west of Hongkong. He cannot do so in the centre of the city.
Can you explain why it is that the centre of the city is overcrowded and yet houses are standing empty in the outskirta ♬
Chinese people do not like to go far away from their work. They like to be near it so as to go home and get tiffin made by wife.
But if rents are cheaper in the outskirts and Chinese can travel cheaply in workmen's teams why don't they leave the overcrowded places ?
Workmen's trams only run at curtain hours, Chinese workpeople, in shops, don't know when their masters will let them go.
Then the trams are not run at suitable hours ? No, they should run longer.
Is that the reason why the workmen's trems have not been the success they were anticipated to be ?
Partly. But many people do not like to ba classified as workmen.
I see, and these men would not patroniss workmen's
No.
́s cars ?
Well, we can't have much sympathy for them. Bents have become dearer all over. Yes, but wages have also increased. Not sufficiently to cover the increased cost of living. Eren in the country, in fact all over China, living is douter. Formerly, a woman
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