May 21, 1904.]
open to question of course they would have advised him to take the matter at once up to the Supreme Court. Therefore to call these men smugglers was an entire misnomer. They were not smugglers at all. They were carry ing on a business which so far decision of
as the the Court was concerned had been decided to be legal. It has been decided at the Magistracy and the decision of the Magistrate must be taken by this Council; and I say without the slightest hesitation that the decision of the Magistrate was right. There has been no attempt to take the matter up before the higher tribunal; there had been no attempt to institute proceedings in any case but one, and the very able legal advisers at the back of the opium farmer felt that they could not do anything-that the case was hopeless. That was the only possible explanation of their not having taken the matter up to the Supreme Court.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Probably Supreme Court would have said the Magistrate the was right.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-To speak of these men as smugglers is preposterous when the Magis trate has decided that their business is legal. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Hę did not decide that. HA decided that in a certain case brought before him he would not say that the opium which had been sold had been subjected to any degree of heat. propose to put in a clear definition in order to protect the opium farmer.
Now we
CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT.
His EXCELLENCY-I do not think you are entitled to call it secret.
from this Council; that is what I mean.
Hou. Mr. POLLOCK-It is entirely secret The ATTORNEY-GENERAL - Official. Hon. Mr. POLLOCK - It is a purely unofficial enquiry so far as this Council is concern -1. by a high officer of the Government and must The ATTORNEY-GENERAL-It is conducted be official.
to
an
go
385
Не
here, against this proposed measure; and in that the report of petition, although I can well understand there
officer of the Govern may have been divergent opinions among
ment who. I have по doctors
doubt, has gone into the matter to the best of his ligats ; mention that in their belief the taking of the scope of his investigations, and it hear 'on the point, these petitioners but still We do not know what has been opium pills or wine does help to the opium habit.
break conducted apparently from the point of view of Of course.
some doctors the Government with the idea of supplying the petitioners set their signatures to it. may think one way and some the other, but these | Government with some answers to these peti- Excellency may possibly have omitted to note Registrar General could hardly have approached Your tions which have been sent in. I think the that in paragraph 4 of the petition these dealers the subject with an unbiassed mind. the submission. that the trade which they are appointed and the whole question gone into. I
submit, and can call witnesses in support of
What is a decidedly unbiassed commission should be actually beneficial to the Chinese inhabitants of principle of law which is generally followed out carrying on in opium pills or opium wine is need hardly point out that it is a general this Colony, on the ground that such pills and wine afford a means of rescue from the degrad- chary are our courts of depriving anybody of
by courts of law that ing vice of opium-smoking. such pills and wine | rights without compensation - an Ordinance or so far as possible—so containing many other ingredients in addition tolopium or dross." These people say that they as not to take away a man's rights without his a statute should be construed in such a way can call evidence on the point. and in the last receiving compensation. Government is not satisfied with what is stated They recognise that it is prima facie unjust paragraph of the petition they suggest that if the lean towards such construing of an Ordinance. The courts always here a commission should be appointed. Now. to take away a has been a kind of secret investigation by the proposes to take away these people's rights sir, what have the Government done?
man's business arbitrarily There without compensation, and yet the Government Registrar-General.
without giving them any compensation whatso- ever. That, as Dr. Ho Kai pointed out. is people's rights is very unjust and unfair, and a very important principle; the taking away of a point upon which hon. members of Council should take a firm stand. It is radically unjust Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-If these people were
to take away people's rights in this way and liable to be proceeded against at law they would
to it. It is most unsatisfactory that all members of Council should not be parties have been proceeded against: the matter would |
we should have to have been carried up to the higher Court. It
upon in coming was found that they could not be proceeded | Attorney-General.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK -I do not agree with the
a decision on this matter is merely the report of a Government officer which is not against and therefore it was entirely a misnomer official but is not official.
It is carried out by an before us at all. to speak of them as illicit dealers or sellers.
The Attorney-General stated At any rate it is not This trade has been carried on in this Colony other public body such as parties have a right demand nothing but justice." Language like a public enquiry, or by a commission or some
that the opium farmer could come here to-day and say. I stand upon my legal rights and not merely for ten but 50 and 60 years past. It is just as lawful and legitimate a business as
to expect at the hands of this Government. selling sugar. Now, what is the position of the show that in some cases at all events the taking legal rights; the drawback is that that is not These parties are prepared to call witnesses to
that sounds very beautiful from the opium farmer to us, but he does not stand upon his opium farmer? It is suggested or rather implied of opium pills has had beneficial effects correct. that he is being subjected to some hardship. I say to that emphatically. No. He has got
in weaning people from the habit.
What he says is, I find I have not I quite sufficient rights; I want to be protected and I exactly what he contracted for, what he tender one of the few points on which I can agree with į does not stand upon his present legal rights at
agree with the hon. Attorney-General--it is waut sufficient legislation to support me." ed to get. Everybody is presumed to know him-that it is a pity that people cannot rescue the law, and it is unthinkable that in this ticular case before the farmer tendered for this
He wants the Government to alter the themselves from this habit by mere strength↑ Ordinance, to extend his rights and privileges par- privilege he did not know that prepared opium feel that some people are so constituted that these weakness of his position, and that his legal ad- of will. We must all feel that, lmt we must also by law, and as showing that the farmer feels the is defined by law; indeed the case is made particular means are needed to wean them. no stronger because the present farmer was also doubt gradually, from the habit of opium smok-those sops which were referred to by the Attor- visers know it also, one has only to consider the previous farmer. He was not new to the ing; and I submit. sir. there being this strong ney-General. The farmer in return for the business: he went into it with his eyes open. body of Chinese opinion against this measure. He has tendered for this privilege of prepared that at all events the least the Goverument which the Attorney-General admits to be large business of the dealers in opium wine and pills opium as defined by law, and had got it. It could do would be to hold a public commission in the aggregate-for getting all this into his might be an unfortunate thing for them. as the of enquiry. I think it will be found that in pocket he is prepared to do what I would do in Attorney-General hinted in his speech, that England in recent times at any rate has such his place-to dole out certain concessions. this trade in pills was on the increase. This only showed there
a measure as this been passed affecting several does not stand upon his rights but wants his was a demand for them in this Colony, and
firms without full enquiry of some sort having rights altered, and as the return for extending as Dr. Ho Kai been held into it. had pointed out it would be very unfair have been
As I say, there seems to his rights at the expense of other people he to interfere with these people who were carry- Registrar-General, but do not think so far
some sort of enquiry by the doles out some concessions. That, sir, is his posi- ing on this increasing business, the good will of which would also be increasing. The hon. At-anything about the particulars. excepting disadvantage au
as the Conncil is concerned that we know point I should refer to, but it shows the tion. I do not know that there is any other torney-General had stated that the opposition your Excellency, the Attorney-General. and the he comes here, for he finds the Government unofficial is under when was fictitious because it came from parties who Registrar-General. were directly overridden and borne down by to what extent the Registrar-General has pro-
We as a body do not know has prejudged the whole question. this proposed measure-the dealers. That was a most extraordinary argument to use. Sup-
bed into this matter. what enquiries he has made, posing a law were passed to-morrow that no
or what answers he has got. We are only told particular firms or persons but one should deal Attorney-General. This is not a satisfactory a partial result of his negotiations by the in stationery, would it be called fictitious be- cause the other businesses dealing in stationery way which would commend itself to those who way of dealing with the matter. and it is not a said this must be stopped; it is unfair as a por. tion of our business is being taken away.
are most anxious as everybody should be not to Surely such an opposition could not he described fullest enquiry. Of course
interfere with people's business except after the as fictitious? Surely the people dealing this this Council must feel that it is a big su
every member of legitimate business proposed to be interfered which the opium farmer has to pay for the with by this Bill have a better right than anybody monopoly in this Colony, but I agree with Dr. else to say this legislation is unjust and unfair; itis doing away with a portion of our business; it is
Ho Kaithatthat is a matter which ought to be-I am afraid it is not entirely-irrelevant to the making our business which was previously car-present discussion. The question is whether ried on
as legal and legitimate, unfair and this Council by passing this measure will be unlawful, it is putting us entirely in the hands doing of the opium farmer; it is wiping out our busi- and I submit that upon a private enquiry an act of justice or injustice ness. Surely it is improper to describe the by a Government official the Government opposition of such people as fictitious is When the hon. Attorney-General referred this measure
not justified in putting through to the opposition of the dealers he seems appointed, and then we shall see and probably without а commission being to have forgotten that there was in addition be convinced that such a a petition from the general Chinese community desirable.
measure as this is of this Colony which was very numerously Here is a business to-day; you propose to make But we cannot be convinced now. signed-there being 48 signatures of individual it illegal to-morrow, and as a foundation for persons and 2178 of firms carrying on business that measure you have simply to go upon
.
all.
He
of the hon. member that the Government come HIS EXCELLENCY-I object to that remark here with the whole case prejudged.
Bill has been postponed for two months or Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-I will explain. This nearly two months.
HIS EXCELLENCY-To meet the convenience of the hon. member.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-Not on the last occasion. And now it has been brought on again. It mean that the Colony has decided that it is a good thing to
Executive
pass this measure: and it is a well-known fact of this
that the official members of this Council are private opinions. Therefore unofficial members not at liberty to express their individual or come here very often practically with their case prejudged.
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY-That is irrele-
vant.
Hon. Mr. POLLOCK-The Colonial Secretary disheartening position for a member to occupy may call it irrelevant, but it is a somewhat in this Council: The hon. member may think it irrelevant, but I think the correctness of it cannot possibly be denied. But if the matter has Excellency desires unbiassed opinion from the not been prejudged it seems to me that if your
Y
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.