January 27, 1898.]
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(2.) That in the interests of soldiers and sailors and of the community generally some steps onght to be taken to check the importation and sale of crude spirits of all kinds and to place some restrictions on the sale of Chinese spirits and liquors. (3.)-That the most effective means of checking the importation and sale of crude spirits would in our opinion be that the Govern- ment should establish a standard as to the maximum percentage of fusel oil (amylic al- | .cohol) or other orude products of distilla
tion to be allowed in any spirit and that the possession by any licensed person of spirits not in accordance with the standard should be made a punishable offence. (4.)—That an invariable part of the punishment shonld be the endorsement of the convic- Ition on the offender's licence and that a second conviction within three years entailed a forfeiture of licence. (5.) That the Government should undertake by its official experts an examination into the qualities and kinds of Chinese wines and spirits, the methods of manufacture, modes of adulteration, &c, and on the report of its scientific advisers, should fix some minimum standard of quality to which all Chinese spirits should conform. Adherence to this standard to be enforced by penalties on the same lines as those for imported crude spirits, and (6.)That these resolutious be circulated among the Justices of the Peace, and if approved of by a majority be forwarded to the Government for their consideration. With regard to those resolutions, gentlemen, I think I may say on behalf of those who were responsible for them that it was thought they should not be considered as so many axioms beyond the scope of controversy, or as the final decision on the question, but rather that they should put into form an expression of the general nebulous feeling entertained on the subject, and that they should form a basis on which to approach the Government. I circulated the resolutions for the information of the Justices in the following terms;-"The andersigned has been requested. to circulate the accompany ing memorandum amongst the Justices of the Peace and will be obliged if they will express their approval of the resolutions which it is proposed to forward for the consideration of the Government.-H. E. Wodehouse, Police Magistrate." The result was that a large proportion of the Justices signified their ap-
There was proval of the resolutionS.
8
small minority against the resolutions. The next step was to forward the resolutions for the consideration of the Government, which was done in the following letter-
"The Magistracy, Hongkong,
14th December, 1897. Sir, I have the honour to forward for the consideration of the Government copy, of reso lutions relating to the sale of injurious liquors passed at an informal meeting held at Derring ton on the 16th November, 1897, at which were
present. Here follow names of gentlemen pre- sent as given above.]
I have further to forward, in original, the endorsement of the general body of the Justices of the Peace to whom the foregoing resolutions were submitted. I have the honour to be, &c., "
H. E. WODEHOUSE,
Police Magistrate. To that letter a reply was received from the Government in the form of a minute by the Colonial Secretary, which was forwarded to you in the following letter:-
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CHINA OVERLAND TRADE REPORT, My own opinion with regard to that minute is that if it is left to the Justices to deal with the matter the result will not be so favourable as if the Government themselves took the mat- ter in band and formed a Committee or Com- mission with power to call witnesses and exam- It is, however, for ine them. (Applause.) you yourselves, gentlemen, to decide that ques- tion. I think I need make only one more remark, and that is in regard to myself person- ally. As you are aware; by Ordinance the Magistrate presides at meetings of the Justices of the Peace held to consider applications for transfers or for licences. He is also generally used as a medium through which to convene a meeting, but the meetings once convened and opened I am of opinion that the functions of the Magistrate cease, and that after that he becomes merged in the general body of Justices. There- fore, in now declaring the meeting opened, I will call upon you to elect your Chairman. (Applause.)
The CHAIRMAN then left his seat.
Mr. EDE proposed that Hon. H. E. Wode- house be appointed Chairman of the meeting.
Mr. MEHTA seconded. Carried unanimously.
The chair was again taken by Hon. H. E. Wodehouse.
The CHAIRMAN-I have great pleasure in occupying the chair, and we will now proceed to discuss the answer of the Government which I have already read to you. I'will call upon any gentleman present to make any remarks or more any resolution he may feel inclined to
move.
In answer to Mr. CRAWFORD, the CHAIR- MAN said-So far as my recollection goes-I have not the Ordinance with me now-there is no provision in the Ordinance regarding the sale of deleterious liquors. There is a provision for the sale of adulterated liquors, and adulter- ated liquors are defined in a particular way which does not include the quality of liquors such as we are now considering.
Mr. CRAWFORD-If there is no special pro- vision for Hongkong we are under the ordinary English law..
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of the Justices were finished, but as the Government. have not taken that view I see ու reason why we should not meet them, and as to à certain extent they have endorsed our opinion that something ought to be done we certainly ought to meet them half way and if necessary appoint a Commission at once. The one objection taken to the original resolutions was that it was impossible to find any means of nailing this matter; but it seems to me that if we can prove that this evil is doing an immense amount of injury to those who some day may have to defend us the Go- vernment ought to take steps to remedy that defect, no matter what. interests are involved. (Applause.) I may say that a gentlemen who knows all about these cases told me that you can get quite a respectable drop of good honest Irish or Scotch whiskey for the same price as the poisonous stuff is sold at. If that is 80, we can deal with the matter by means of the licences. We can compel licence holders to sell - only genuine stuff and not spurious as it is to a great extent at present. Then as regards Chi- nese liquor, that is more easily dealt with, bê- cause we could say it should be kept up to a certain standard, and that could easily be ac- complished by putting a provision in the Ordin- ance. The view we should take is that if the evil exists a remedy should be found. The Government is here to govern and if the Government cannot find a remedy we should take means to abolish an evit which is sapping the foundations of a great portion of the popu- lation. I beg to conclude by hoping that we shall come to some definite results to-day and not allow this question to be in abeyance as it has been to my certain knowledge for twenty years, and probably twenty years before that. (Applause.)
Mr. EDE-I see her an expert gentleman, Mr. McCallum. I should like to ask him whether it is possible to establish a standard that would not interfere with legitimate liquor and by which we should be able to ascertain if there were deleterious substances in the liquors sold.
Mr. MCCALLUM-I think it is quite possible fix a standard, both for foreign liquors and for Chinese liquors.
The CHAIRMAN-That is not so. The Eng-to lish law is not in force here subsequent to 1843 unless it has been expressly put in force by Ordinance.
Mr. HOOPER-Is there any law in England at the present time which deals with this question P
The CHAIRMAN-I am unable to say. Dr. HARTIGAN As nobody else seems in
suppose I must, clined to take the matter up
With re- although I did not intend to do so. gard to the Government proposal that we should form a Committee, it seems to me that it would be better to ask the Government to form a Commission, or, as has been suggested, that we ourselves, if we form a Committee, should ask the Government to give it the powers of a Commission. I do pot think we should be able to carry out the object we have in view unless we get very ample powers powers to take evidence and compel people to give evidence. If we were simply what 1 might designate an irresponsible "Committee we probably should not be able to get a certain amount of conclusive, evidence, which we should require, as the Government have asked us to give them certain definite details from which they could found an opinion. Everybody knows that the question of drink in Hongkong is one of the very highest importance, Yon cannot walk out in the streets at night without seeing the results of the present regulations- medical man or non-regulations--and any here can vouch for the evil results. Certainly I know that naval and military officers cân say that the results on their men produced by this particular liquor is very bad indeed, as it is not a mere case of drunkenness, but it is a case of frenzy. It is not a case of drunkenness for a day, but for a week. I have never seen any honest liquor produce this result even when taken in larger quantities. In order to settle
Dr. HARTIGAN-I beg to propose the follow- ing resolution "That this meeting appoint a Committee of three members to inquire into the question of the working of the liquor laws of this colony, and that the Government add two members thereto and give such Committee the power of a Commission."
Mr. A. FINDLAY SMITH seconded.
Mr. COUGHTRIE-Mr. Chairman, do you think five members will be sufficient on the Committee? It might be necessary to have sub- Committees,
The CHAIRMAN-That is entirely a matter for yourselves to decide.
Mr. DALRYMPLE-Mr. Chairman, I beg to move the following amendment—“That if it is considered advisable by the Justices present that a Committee or Commission should be appointed, that that Commission should be appointed by the Government entirely." Per- sonally I think that this is a matter which the Government should deal with. They are possessed of the necessary machinery, and I think it is the duty of the Government to take steps to prevent. the importation and sale of injurions liquors.
The Magistracy,
Victoria, Hongkong,
15th January, 1898. Sir-With reference to the forthcoming meeting of Justices of the Peace at the City Hall, it may be to your convenience to know that the Government requests that the Justices will appoint a Committee of their own body to consider the matter and make definite recom- mendations to the Government such as can be this question we/should ask the Government to with certain facts showing the nature of
secure
embodied in an Ordinance and are. likely to
the object aimed at, The foregoing is the communication referred to in my letter convening the meeting.I have the honour to be, &o.
H. E. WODEHOUSE,
Police Magistrate.”
give the Committee the full powers of a Com- mission as regards the taking of evidence that they think is necessary. This present trouble is, as you all know, of very long standing and I am sorry to say it is increasing. My own idea was that having called the attention of the Government to the matter, the functions
Mr. THURBURN seconded the amendment. The CHAIRMANI think I may as well say that when putting this resolution and amend- ment before you it will be well to bear in mind the fact that we have no facts before us at pre- sent on which we could ask for a Commission, and that it is possible that the Justices who have taken the initiative in the matter will be called upon to say in what way the evil exists. We have been told that it exists, but at present there is nothing before the Government to prove that it floes, and I think that before they take such an important step as appointing a Commission they would like to be furnished the evil. Before coming to a conclusion on this amendment and resolution I should like you to consider that point. It seems to me, gentlemen, that there will be no difficulty in obtaining sufficient grounds for the Govern- ment to go upon if we invite officers of the Navy and Army and the Mercantile Marine to give
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