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should take action against it. Even the Council has been prosecuted in the past. The noise problem at Hong Kong Stadium has resulted in the Council being prosecuted. Of course it was the management company rather than the Council who was prosecuted. Under the circumstance, when we prosecute it may not necessarily be the Housing Department. We may prosecute the cleansing contractor. If we have the power but do not exercise it, I think it is regrettable. I support the original motion.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): The proposer of the original motion, Mr. Lai Hok-lim has the right of reply in response to views expressed by Members.
Mr. Lai Hok-lim (in Cantonese): I am very pleased to learn that Members who have spoken on both the original and amended motion are in support of the spirit of the motion. Mr. Joseph Chan and Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG's arguments were that it is appropriate to prosecute government departments. If I amend the wording to Housing Authority, then they will support the motion intact. The reason why I highlight the Housing Department is that because under the legislation, the occupier should be responsible. As far as I can understand it, we are not prosecuting Housing Department per se, but as the occupier of the public housing estate, as managers of the public housing estate. We are prosecuting it because of its status or position. Under Cap 283, section 4B2, the Housing Authority is responsible for managing public housing estates and the executive arm of the Housing Authority is the Housing Department. In my opinion, the Housing Department being the managers of public areas in public housing estates can be prosecuted. But to allay confusions and eliminate misunderstanding, I would support that the wording 'the Housing Department' be deleted and substituted with 'responsible officers or persons' so as to allay Members' concerns because we are talking about breaching of the law or offenses. In order to gain the support of Members, the wording 'Housing Department' would be deleted. Mr. Tim S. Manuel CHAN will later move an amended motion.
The question on Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG's amended motion was put.
The motion was lost with 13 votes for 18 votes against (the Chairman did not vote).
MR. TIM S. MANUEL CHAN (in Cantonese): My amendment is as follows: "RESOLVED that owing to the poor hygienic and sanitary conditions in public housing estates, the Urban Council must strictly enforce the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, requiring the Housing Department and the Hong Kong Housing Society, as managers of most of the public areas in public housing estates, to improve the sanitation of those areas immediately, and lay charge against the responsible persons or organizations concerned and the Hong Kong Housing Society in case of violation of the Ordinance."
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should take action against it. Even the Council has been prosecuted in the past. The noise problem at Hong Kong Stadium has resulted in the Council being prosecuted. Of course it was the management company rather than the Council who was prosecuted. Under the circumstance, when we prosecute it may not necessarily be the Housing Department. We may prosecute the cleansing contractor. If we have the power but do not exercise it, I think it is regrettable. I support the original motion.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):-The proposer of the original motion, Mr. Lai Hok-lim has the right of reply in response to views expressed by Members.
Mr. Lai Hok-lim (in Cantonese):—I am very pleased to learn that Members who have spoken on both the original and amended motion are in support of the spirit of the motion. Mr. Joseph Chan and Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG'S arguments were that is it appropriate to prosecute government departments. If I amend the wording to Housing Authority, then they will support the motion intact. The reason why I highlight the Housing Department is that because under the legislation, the occupier should be responsible. As far as I can under- stand it, we are not prosecuting Housing Department per se, but as the occupier of the public housing estate, as managers of the public housing estate. We are prosecuting it because of its status or position. Under Cap 283, section 4B2. the Housing Authority is responsible for managing public housing estates and the executive arm of the Housing Authority is the Housing Department. In my opinion, the Housing Department being the managers of public areas in public housing estates can be prosecuted. But to allay confusions and eliminate misunderstanding, I would support that the wording the Housing Department' be deleted and substituted with 'responsible officers or persons' so as to allay Members' concerns because we are talking about breaching of the law or offenses. In order to gain the support of Members, the wording 'Housing Department' would be deleted. Mr. Tim S. Manuel CHAN will later move an amended motion.
The question on Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG'S amended motion was put.
The motion was lost with 13 votes for 18 votes against (the Chairman did not vote).
MR. TIM S. MANUEL CHAN (in Cantonese):-My amendment is as follows: *RESOLVED that owing to the poor hygienic and sanitary conditions in public housing estates, the Urban Council must strictly enforce the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, requiring the Housing Department and the Hong Kong Housing Society, as managers of most of the public areas in public housing estates, to improve the sanitation of those areas immediately, and lay charge against the responsible persons or organizations concerned and the Hong Kong Housing Society in case of violation of the Ordinance.'
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