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# HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
91
I have spoken a lot, I am not trying to speak on behalf of the Housing Department. I am not satisfied with the Housing Department's effectiveness in managing the public housing estates. They do not realise their past mistakes even when faced with problems. For example, they still insist that there is no problem after seeing the falling down of ceilings in their older estates. I fully disagree with such claims. So my amendment should not be taken as a defence for the Housing Department. I support the broad direction of the original motion but I hope to make some amendments.
I formally move the amended motion.
MR. ALBERT LAT (in Cantonese):—In view of the fact that Mr. CHEUNG has put forward an amendment, I think cooperation is better than confrontation. We have already abandoned/abolished capital punishment and I think prosecution is not the best way to solve the problem and we should cooperate instead of confront with each other.
I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—The amended motion by Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG has been moved and seconded. Does any Member wish to speak on the amended motion?
MR. CHRISTOPHER CHUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I support the amended motion. The main reason is that over half of the population of Hong Kong are not residing in housing estates under the management of Housing Authority or Housing Society. They also need protection under the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance for a good and hygienic environment. If the sanitation in private buildings is worse off than that of public housing estates, for example in some older urban areas, the Housing Department may suggest prosecuting the USD or the Urban Council if the street or lane is dirty or smelly. Can that hold water? Besides, how can you define whether a place is clean or dirty? I think we should urge the Department to improve the situation instead of taking out prosecution. If prosecution is instituted, the UC will similarly be a target as there may be a case where the streets become dirty again after they are swept in the morning. Is prosecution an effective means to solve the problem?
As Mr. CHEUNG has rightly pointed out, I am also not satisfied with the management of the Housing Department. Very often, it has done a sub-standard job and we should urge it to do a good job and prosecution may not be the ideal solution.
MR. TIM. S. MANUEL CHAN (in Cantonese):—I do not support the amended motion. First of all, as Mr. Lai has said, it doesn't appear that the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance has provided any exemption for the Housing Department or Housing Authority. Secondly, as Mr. CHEUNG has
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
91
I have spoken a lot, I am not trying to speak on behalf of the Housing Department. I am not satisfied with the Housing Department's effectiveness in managing the public housing estates. They do not realise their past mistakes even when faced with problems. For example, they still insist that there is no problem after seeing the falling down of ceilings in their older estates. I fully disagree with such claims. So my amendment should not be taken as a defence for the Housing Department. I support the broad direction of the original motion but I hope to make some amendments.
I formally move the amended motion.
MR. ALBERT Lat (in Cantonese);—In view of the fact that Mr. CHEUNG has put forward an amendment, I think cooperation is better than confrontation. We have already abandoned/abolished capital punishment and I think prosecution is not the best way to solve the problem and we should cooperate instead of confront with each other.
I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):-The amended motion by Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG has been moved and seconded. Does any Member wish to speak on the amended motion?
MR. CHRISTOPHER CHUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I support the amended motion. The main reason is that over half of the population of Hong Kong are not residing in housing estates under the management of Housing Authority or Housing Society. They also need protection under the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance for a good and hygienic environ- ment. If the sanitation in private buildings is worse off than that of public housing estates, for example in some older urban areas. the Housing Department may suggest to prosecute the USD or the Urban Council if the street or lane is dirty or smelly. Can that hold water? Besides, how can you define whether a place is clean or dirty? I think we should urge the Department to improve the situation instead of taking out prosecution. If prosecution is instituted, the UC will similarly be a target as there may be a case where the streets become dirty again after they are swept in the morning. Is prosecution an effective means to solve the problem?
As Mr. CHEUNG has rightly pointed out. I am also not satisfied with the management of the Housing Department. Very often, it has done a sub- standard job and we should urge it to do a good job and prosecution may not be the ideal solution.
MR. TIM. S. MANUEL CHAN (in Cantonese):-I do not support the amended motion. First of all, as Mr. Lai has said, it doesn't appear that the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance has provided any exemption for the Housing Department or Housing Authority. Secondly, as Mr. CHEUNG has
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