1992 — Page 22

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 22 of 126

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. MA LEE-WO (in Cantonese):-I support the motion, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIRMAN (in English): Any members who registered to speak, I shall call on them to speak one by one, first is Mr. BERNACCHI.

MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-I would like to speak last.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-O.K. Yes, so next on the list would be Miss Cecilia YEUNG.

MISS CECILIA L. Y. YEUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I like to listen to the opinion of the rest before I speak.

MR. DANIEL WONG KWOK-TUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I am so glad that we have introduced a new demerit points system to the licensed premises which use the public place for their own purpose. I trust that the new system will create sudden deterrent effect to those operators. However, I am more concerned to address this Council about the issue of unlicensed operation of food business in public place which is becoming more and more wide spread and has come to a stage that the Department does not appear to have any effective solution so far. Well it is beyond any doubt that such illegal establishments should not be allowed to exist. Because they are against the law and they also create two major problems. First, the public hygiene and secondly, the nuisance to the residents in the area where they operate. Furthermore, there is strong indication of triad involvement in some if not most of those cases, well in Yau Tsim and Mong Kok. On the other hand we should realise that the reason why these illegal establishment could prosper is because they offer to residents flexibility, choice and convenience. These factors guarantee a good and constant patronage to those illegal establishments. Thus, when we consider measures to be taken to eliminate, we must not forget these factors as well. In principle, such illegal establishments should of course be put out entirely. However, in reality we may not be able to do so in view of the shortage of manpower in the Department. We are therefore forced to take priority. In order to deal with this problem effectively I believe that the taking of priority and other deterrent measures should be carried out at the same time. First, we should determine how we are to arrange the priority in dealing with those illegal establishments. I consider the most important factors to take into consideration are the two problems mentioned earlier. When the Department has a concrete case of hygiene problem or has received complaint of nuisance from local residents, top priority should be given to the subject of such complaint. Immediate action must be taken by the Department to stop the operation. Although I admit this is not the most desirable solution, bear in mind the limit of manpower, any enforcement action obviously can only be taken on a selective basis. Equally important are the deterrent measures. There are a few measures which I would like to suggest. First, newly established stall should be eliminated as early as possible so that other potential law breakers would be discouraged. As I can see it, in a sense of manpower, a close and active surveillance should not cause any significant burden to the Department. Secondly, the punishment that such law breakers are likely to get is also one very significant deterrent. Although we cannot tell the court what penalty to impose, we can of course reflect upon the need to impose heavier penalty to the court in order to deter such potential law breakers. Further, under the existing law, we are empowered to forfeit any equipment and facilities used by those illegal establishments. I urge the Department to ensure that this powerful weapon is used whenever possible. I mean that not only the tables and chairs be forfeited, but also the cooking equipment and utensils would be forfeited so that they cannot operate their business immediately after arrest. I believe such forfeiture is significant to the continuation of any business and therefore is a possible deterrent. Thirdly, all conviction record should be provided to our Licensing Section. When considering any new application a convicted person should always be refused for the reason that we cannot entrust such person when combined with the law and all licensing conditions. Such measure must also be widely published so that the message is clear and loud. I hope this measure will successfully deter further illegal establishments since this business is in fact run by a small circle of people engaged in food related operations. Lastly, I point out that such illegal establishments are able to survive due to their constant patronage. Such patronage clearly showed that there is a genuine need for such kind of food business on the part of the public. Since the duty of this Council is to serve the public, we cannot undermine such needs. We should therefore do our best and liaise with the relevant departments in order to simplify our licensing process and to provide all assistance possible to those who are interested in operating food business. By creating competition and alternative supply to the members of the public, the illegal establishments of food business hopefully will gradually die out on their own account. Of course, it will carry out the measures I discuss just now, hopefully this elimination process will take even shorter time.

---

MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, concerning today's motion and concerning the USD's operation, I would like to express my views about the situation in Sham Shui Po. On 7 May, the Environmental Committee under the Sham Shui Po District Board had a very detailed discussion on this particular action. The District Board is in support of, as well as fully appreciative of the USD's action. This action has lasted for two months, April and May. Towards the end of May, I have been in touch with some of the residents in Sham Shui Po and they feel that the USD operation has achieved the desired effect. As regards the effectiveness of these operations, I like to thank the USD for their detailed and very comprehensive prior planning and arrangement. The ways that we carry out this time are different from what we have seen previously. Previously we just fined the offenders and the effectiveness has been very shortlived, but for this operation it is divided into two parts. The first one is that during the first month the USD would distribute some publicity pamphlets and warning letters to the licensed holders of these premises so that they have been given prior warning about the forthcoming

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Page 22 of 126 37 36 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. MA LEE-WO (in Cantonese):-I support the motion, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN (in English): Any members who registered to speak, I shall call on them to speak one by one, first is Mr. BERNACCHI. MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-I would like to speak last. CHAIRMAN (in English):-O.K. Yes, so next on the list would be Miss Cecilia YEUNG. MISS CECILIA L. Y. YEUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I like to listen to the opinion of the rest before I speak. MR. DANIEL WONG KWOK-TUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I am so glad that we have introduced a new demerit points system to the licensed premises which use the public place for their own purpose. I trust that the new system will create sudden deterrent effect to those operators. However, I am more concerned to address this Council about the issue of unlicensed operation of food business in public place which is becoming more and more wide spread and has come to a stage that the Department does not appear to have any effective solution so far. Well it is beyond any doubt that such illegal establishments should not be allowed to exist. Because they are against the law and they also create two major problems. First, the public hygiene and secondly, the nuisance to the residents in the area where they operate. Furthermore, there is strong indication of triad involvement in some if not most of those cases, well in Yau Tsim and Mong Kok. On the other hand we should realise that the reason why these illegal establishment could prosper is because they offer to residents flexibility, choice and convenience. These factors guarantee a good and constant patronage to those illegal establishments. Thus, when we consider measures to be taken to eliminate, we must not forget these factors as well. In principle, such illegal establishments should of course be put out entirely. However, in reality we may not be able to do so in view of the shortage of manpower in the Department. We are therefore forced to take priority. In order to deal with this problem effectively I believe that the taking of priority and other deterrent measures should be carried out at the same time. First, we should determine how we are to arrange the priority in dealing with those illegal establishments. I consider the most important factors to take into consideration are the two problems mentioned earlier. When the Department has a concrete case of hygiene problem or has received complaint of nuisance from local residents, top priority should be given to the subject of such complaint. Immediate action must be taken by the Department to stop the operation. Although I admit this is not the most desirable solution, bear in mind the limit of manpower, any enforcement action obviously can only be taken on a selective basis. Equally important are the deterrent measures. There are a few measures which I would like to suggest. First, newly established stall should be eliminated as early as possible so that other potential law breakers would be discouraged. As I can see it, in a sense of manpower, a close and active surveillance should not cause any significant burden to the Department. Secondly, the punishment that such law breakers are likely to get is also one very significant deterrent. Although we cannot tell the court what penalty to impose, we can of course reflect upon the need to impose heavier penalty to the court in order to deter such potential law breakers. Further, under the existing law, we are empowered to forfeit any equipment and facilities used by those illegal establishments. I urge the Department to ensure that this powerful weapon is used whenever possible. I mean that not only the tables and chairs be forfeited, but also the cooking equipment and utensils would be forfeited so that they cannot operate their business immediately after arrest. I believe such forfeiture is significant to the continuation of any business and therefore is a possible deterrent. Thirdly, all conviction record should be provided to our Licensing Section. When considering any new application a convicted person should always be refused for the reason that we cannot entrust such person when combined with the law and all licensing conditions. Such measure must also be widely published so that the message is clear and loud. I hope this measure will successfully deter further illegal establishments since this business is in fact run by a small circle of people engaged in food related operations. Lastly, I point out that such illegal establishments are able to survive due to their constant patronage. Such patronage clearly showed that there is a genuine need for such kind of food business on the part of the public. Since the duty of this Council is to serve the public, we cannot undermine such needs. We should therefore do our best and liaise with the relevant departments in order to simplify our licensing process and to provide all assistance possible to those who are interested in operating food business. By creating competition and alternative supply to the members of the public, the illegal establishments of food business hopefully will gradually die out on their own account. Of course, it will carry out the measures I discuss just now, hopefully this elimination process will take even shorter time. --- MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, concerning today's motion and concerning the USD's operation, I would like to express my views about the situation in Sham Shui Po. On 7 May, the Environmental Committee under the Sham Shui Po District Board had a very detailed discussion on this particular action. The District Board is in support of, as well as fully appreciative of the USD's action. This action has lasted for two months, April and May. Towards the end of May, I have been in touch with some of the residents in Sham Shui Po and they feel that the USD operation has achieved the desired effect. As regards the effectiveness of these operations, I like to thank the USD for their detailed and very comprehensive prior planning and arrangement. The ways that we carry out this time are different from what we have seen previously. Previously we just fined the offenders and the effectiveness has been very shortlived, but for this operation it is divided into two parts. The first one is that during the first month the USD would distribute some publicity pamphlets and warning letters to the licensed holders of these premises so that they have been given prior warning about the forthcoming Page 22 of 126

Baseline (Original)

Page 22 of 126 Page 22 of 126 37 36 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. MA LEE-Wo (in Cantonese):-I support the motion, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN (in English): Any members who registered to speak, I shall call on them to speak one by one, first is Mr. BERNACCHI. MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-I would like to speak last. CHAIRMAN (in English):-O.K. Yes, so next on the list would be Miss Cecilia YEUNG. MISS CECILIA L. Y. YEUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I like to listen to the opinion of the rest before I speak. MR. DANIEL WONG KWOK-TUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I am so glad that we have introduced a new demerit points system to the licensed premises which use the public place for their own purpose. I trust that the new system will create sudden deterrent effect to those operators. However, I am more concerned to address this Council about the issue of unlicensed operation of food business in public place which is becoming more and more wide spread and has come to a stage that the Department does not appear to have any effective solution so far. Well it is beyond any doubt that such illegal establishments should not be allowed to exist. Because they are against the law and they also create two major problems. First, the public hygiene and secondly, the nuisance to the residents in the area where they operate. Furthermore, there is strong indication of triad involvement in some if not most of those cases, well in Yau Tsim and Mong Kok. On the other hand we should realise that the reason why these illegal establishment could prosper is because they offer to residents flexibility, choice and convenience. These factors guarantee a good and constant patronage to those illegal establishments. Thus, when we consider measures to be taken to eliminate, we must not forget these factors as well. In principle, such illegal establishments should of course be put out entirely. However, in reality we may not be able to do so in view of the shortage of manpower in the Department. We are therefore forced to take priority. In order to deal with this problem effectively I believe that the taking of priority and other deterrent measures should be carried out at the same time. First, we should determine how we are to arrange the priority in dealing with those illegal establishments. I consider the most important factors to take into consideration are the two problems mentioned earlier. When the Department has a concrete case of hygiene problem or has received complaint of nuisance from local residents, top priority should be given to the subject of such complaint. Immediate action must be taken by the Department to stop the operation. Although I admit this is not the most desirable solution, bear in mind the limit of manpower, any enforcement action obviously can only be taken on a selective basis. Equally important are the deterrent measures. There are a few measures which I would like to suggest. First, newly established stall should be eliminated as early as possible so that other potential law breakers would be discouraged. As I can see it, in a sense of manpower, a close and Page 22 of 126 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL active surveillance should not cause any significant burden to the Department. Secondly, the punishment that such law breakers are likely to get is also one very significant deterrent. Although we cannot tell the court what penalty to impose, we can of course reflect upon the need to impose heavier penalty to the court in order to deter such potential law breakers. Further, under the existing law, we are empowered to forfeit any equipment and facilities used by those illegal establishments. I urge the Department to ensure that this powerful weapon is used whenever possible. I mean that not only the tables and chairs be forfeited, but also the cooking equipment and utensils would be forfeited so that they cannot operate their business immediately after arrest. I believe such forfeiture is significant to the continuation of any business and therefore is a possible deterrent. Thirdly, all conviction record should be provided to our Licensing Section. When considering any new application a convicted person should always be refused for the reason that we cannot entrust such person when combined with the law and all licensing conditions. Such measure must also be widely published so that the message is clear and loud. I hope this measure will successfully deter further illegal establishments since this business is in fact run by a small circle of people engaged in food related operations. Lastly, I point out that such illegal establishments are able to survive due to their constant patronage. Such patronage clearly showed that there is a genuine need for such kind of food business on the part of the public. Since the duty of this Council is to serve the public, we cannot undermine such needs. We should therefore do our best and liaise with the relevant departments in order to simplify our licensing process and to provide all assistance possible to those who are interested in operating food business. By creating competition and alternative supply to the members of the public, the illegal establishments of food business hopefully will gradually die out on their own account. Of course, it will carry out the measures I discuss just now, hopefully this elimination process will take even shorter time. --- MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, concerning today's motion and concerning the USD's operation, I would like to express my views about the situation in Sham Shui Po. On 7 May, the Environmental Committee under the Sham Shui Po District Board had a very detailed discussion on this particular action. The District Board is in support of, as well as fully appreciative of the USD's action. This action has lasted for two months, April and May. Towards the end of May, I have been in touch with some of the residents in Sham Shui Po and they feel that the USD operation has achieved the desired effect. As regards the effectiveness of these operations, I like to thank the USD for their detailed and very comprehensive prior planning and arrangement. The ways that we carry out this time are different from what we have seen previously. Previously we just fined the offenders and the effectiveness has been very shortlived, but for this operation it is divided into two parts. The first one is that during the first month the USD would distribute some publicity pamphlets and warning letters to the licensed holders of these premises so that they have been given prior warning about the forthcoming Page 22 of 126

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Page 22 of 126

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. MA LEE-Wo (in Cantonese):-I support the motion, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIRMAN (in English): Any members who registered to speak, I shall call on them to speak one by one, first is Mr. BERNACCHI.

MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-I would like to speak last.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-O.K. Yes, so next on the list would be Miss Cecilia YEUNG.

MISS CECILIA L. Y. YEUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I like to listen to the opinion of the rest before I speak.

Page 22 of 126

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

active surveillance should not cause any significant burden to the Department. Secondly, the punishment that such law breakers are likely to get is also one very significant deterrent. Although we cannot tell the court what penalty to impose, we can of course reflect upon the need to impose heavier penalty to the court in order to deter such potential law breakers. Further, under the existing law, we are empowered to forfeit any equipment and facilities used by those illegal establishments. I urge the Department to ensure that this powerful weapon is used whenever possible. I mean that not only the tables and chairs be forfeited, but also the cooking equipment and utensils would be forfeited so that they cannot operate their business immediately after arrest. I believe such forfeiture is significant to the continuation of any business and therefore is a possible deterrent. Thirdly, all conviction record should be provided to our Licensing Section. When considering any new application a convicted person should always be refused for the reason that we cannot entrust such person when combined with the law and all licensing conditions. Such measure must also be widely published so that the message is clear and loud. I hope this measure will successfully deter further illegal establishments since this business is in fact run by a small circle of people engaged in food related operations. Lastly, I point out that such illegal establishments are able to survive due to their constant patronage. Such patronage clearly showed that there is a genuine need for such kind of food business on the part of the public. Since the duty of this Council is to serve the public, we cannot undermine such needs. We should therefore do our best and liaise with the relevant departments in order to simplify our licensing process and to provide all assistance possible to those who are interested in operating food business. By creating competition and alternative supply to the members of the public, the illegal establishments of food business hopefully will gradually die out on their own account. Of course, it will carry out the measures I discuss just now, hopefully this elimination process will take even shorter time.

1992 — Page 22

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