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some reservations to these observations. Other than the factor of reducing staff cost, we also have to consider the interest of swimmers entering the swimming pools. Secondly, my second question is at Kowloon Park Swimming Pool, we have a trial scheme or a set of machine there, can more places be put on trial as well? The third question is although we cannot provide a full scale manual change service, can we, say at peak hours, say the first two hours of the operation of the pool, can we provide manual change service during these peak hours?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): Mr. MA's first question is concerned with the Department's reluctance to increase manpower and to provide manual change service so as to provide better service for members of the public. He has some reservations. Let me answer his question by saying that as a matter of fact all Urban Council facilities aim to serve the public. If, however, the staff and expenditure implication are such that if it is not proportional to its effect, then I would suggest that the Department will of course consider providing such service if there is such a need. The coin exchange service and the change machine at Kowloon Park sometimes are not working very well, and that is why staff have to make sure that these machines are working well and sometimes more staff are involved in connection with the Kowloon Park system. As to whether this system can be put on trial in other swimming pools or not, as this set of machine is borrowed from the supplier and I think we have to discuss with the supplier before an answer can be given. However, I have gone to the Kowloon Park Swimming Pool and I have tried the system and it works very well and I believe that by the end of August we will know whether we are satisfied with the system or not but I think that we would be happy with the system and this would help to benefit members of the public who use the swimming pool. As to the another question proposed by Mr. MA Lee-wo concerning whether during peak hours manual change service can be provided, I think the Department can consider this proposal and in the Recreation Select Committee to be held tomorrow, I will request the Department to consider this proposal.
MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese): As a matter of fact, this problem on admission to swimming pool has been discussed for at least six months and Mr. MA Lee-wo's question, in fact, is a follow up question but unfortunately there is not any break through. In the Recreation Select Committee I had proposed that before we had some better ideas can we consider issuing tickets or sets of tickets, say the Ocean Park tickets, Cross-Harbour Tunnel tickets or pre-paid tickets. Can pre-paid tickets be arranged in the interim period? By doing so, the Department can earn some interests. May I be informed why this proposal cannot be considered?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): In connection with the adoption of the printed or pre-paid tickets, this is a rather complex issue. I had been involved in swimming pool management in the past, and we had considered whether pre-printed tickets were advisable. You have to give discount if you were to issue pre-printed tickets. This applies to the pre-printed tickets for the Ocean Park and this might be a loss to us and the interest generated from the amount received might not be adequate enough to make up the loss. And the second worry is that there is a possibility of forgery. That is why the Department is not in favour of pre-printed ticket.
MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese): I have a follow-up question, Mr. Chairman. As far as I know, the Cross Harbour Tunnel pre-paid ticket or pre-printed ticket does not have any discount, so discount is not a must for pre-printed ticket. Mr. WONG mentioned that discount has to be given for pre-printed ticket, on what basis does he base in making this assertion.
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): You can only compare an orange with an orange. You cannot compare an orange with an apple. I think the Cross Harbour Tunnel and Ocean Park are two different things and Ocean Park offers a discount which is more relevant to our swimming pools and the case of Cross harbour Tunnel is not an appropriate example for comparison purpose.
MR. MOK YING-FAN (in Cantonese): I have three supplementary questions, Mr. Chairman. The first question is based on the fifth paragraph of the Chinese version. The machine was encouraging. What is really meant by encouraging. Does it mean very successful or very ideal? The second question is that if we were to use the bill validator in the future, what will be the cost implication of installing the machine of that nature? The third question is: Mr. MA Lee-wo last year had proposed that perhaps we could interface with the MTRC computer system. The reply given to us was that the investment was too costly. But we spent a lot of money, say we spent $400,000 in decorating the Lion Club's float, so if $4 million is worth spending, we can consider interfacing our system with the MTRC. May I suggest that for some highly patronized swimming pools can we consider using bill validators? Of course, for low patronizing venue it is not economical to have this kind of machine, but for other places which are highly patronized, it is advisable.
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): Let me explain what is meant by encouraging, Mr. Chairman. Encouraging implies that up to the present moment the result of the trial is highly satisfactory. If such highly satisfactory result could continue, I believe that the Department would recommend to adopt the system. And I told members that I have used the bill validator system and I have repeated to use it many many times and the change given to me was the correct amount. The second question of Mr. Mok is connected with the installation cost of the bill validator. If we adopt this system the cost would be in the region of $2.3 million and the yearly operating cost and the maintenance cost is in the region of $50,000. I like to mention, by the way, the third question in connection with the interfacing with the computer system of the MTRC and the installation cost involved. I would like to inform members that the installation cost would be in the region of $4 million and the annual operation cost would be $4 million as well. So the initial capital cost plus the annual operation cost would be an important point to consider.
MR. MOK YING-FAN (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. WONG that he mentioned that the annual operation cost is $4 million, is he referring to the operation cost of one set of machine or the whole set of system?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): The whole set of system.
MR. MOK YING-FAN (in Cantonese): So you are talking about the whole set of system that controls all swimming pools, right?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): Yes.
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MOTIONS
1. MR. JOSEPH CHAN YUET-SUT, CHAIRMAN OF THE LIBRARIES SELECT COMMITTEE, moved the following motion:
'RESOLVED that the Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order 1992 and (No. 2) Order 1992 be made under section 105K of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, Cap. 132.'
He said (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I rise to move the motion standing in my name:
'RESOLVED that the Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order 1992 and (No. 2) Order 1992 be made under section 105K of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, Cap. 132.'
The purposes of these orders are to designate the premises on the ground and first floors of No. 19 Lai Wan Road, Kowloon as a library, cancel the designation of Nos. 131 and 132 of the second floor of the building known as Towers 92-93 at 102B Broadway, Mei Foo Sun Chuen, Kowloon as a library and to amend Schedule to the Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order (Cap. 132 Sub. leg.).
I beg to move.
MR. PAUL YOUNG TZE-KONG (in English): I second the motion.
The question was put.
The motion was carried unanimously.
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some reservations to these observations. Other than the factor of reducing staff cost, we also have to consider the interest of swimmers entering the swimming pools. Secondly, my second question is at Kowloon Park Swimming Pool, we have a trial scheme or a set of machine there, can more places be put on trial as well? The third question is although we cannot provide a full scale manual change service, can we, say at peak hours, say the first two hours of the operation of the pool, can we provide manual change service during these peak hours?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese): Mr. MA's first question is concerned with the Department's reluctance to increase manpower and to provide manual change service so as to provide better service for members of the public. He has some reservations. Let me answer his question by saying that as a matter of fact all Urban Council facilities aim to serve the public. If, however, the staff and expenditure implication are such that if it is not proportional to its effect, then I would suggest that the Department will of course consider providing such service if there is such a need. The coin exchange service and the change machine at Kowloon Park sometimes are not working very well, and that is why staff have to make sure that these machines are working well and sometimes more staff are involved in connection with the Kowloon Park system. As to whether this system can be put on trial in other swimming pools or not, as this set of machine is borrowed from the supplier and I think we have to discuss with the supplier before an answer can be given. However, I have gone to the Kowloon Park Swimming Pool and I have tried the system and it works very well and I believe that by the end of August we will know whether we are satisfied with the system or not but I think that we would be happy with the system and this would help to benefit members of the public who use the swimming pool. As to the another question proposed by Mr. MA Lee-wo concerning whether during peak hours manual change service can be provided, I think the Department can consider this proposal and in the Recreation Select Committee to be held tomorrow, I will request the Department to consider this proposal.
MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese):-As a matter of fact, this problem on admission to swimming pool has been discussed for at least six months and Mr. MA Lee-wo's question, in fact, is a follow up question but unfortunately there is not any break through. In the Recreation Select Committee I had proposed that before we had some better ideas can we consider issuing tickets or sets of tickets, say the Ocean Park tickets, Cross-Harbour Tunnel tickets or pre-paid tickets. Can pre-paid tickets be arranged in the interim period? By doing so, the Department can earn some interests. May I be informed why this proposal cannot be considered?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonesc):-In connection with the adoption of the printed or pre-paid tickets, this is a rather complex issue. I had been involved in swimming pool management in the past, and we had
Page 20 of 126
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33
considered whether pre-printed tickets were advisable. You have to give discount if you were to issue pre-printed tickets. This applies to the pre-printed tickets for the Ocean Park and this might be a loss to us and the interest generated from the amount received might not be adequate enough to make up the loss. And the second worry is that there is a possibility of forgery. That is why the Department is not in favour of pre-printed ticket.
MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese):--I have a follow-up question, Mr. Chairman. As far as I know, the Cross Harbour Tunnel pre-paid ticket or pre-printed ticket does not have any discount, so discount is not a must for pre-printed ticket. Mr. WONG mentioned that discount has to be given for pre-printed ticket, on what basis does he base in making this assertion.
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese):-You can only compare an orange with an orange. You cannot compare an orange with an apple. I think the Cross Harbour Tunnel and Ocean Park are two different things and Ocean Park offers a discount which is more relevant to our swimming pools and the case of Cross harbour Tunnel is not an appropriate example for comparison purpose.
MR. MOK YING-FAN (in Cantonese):-I have three supplementary questions, Mr. Chairman. The first question is based on the fifth paragraph of the Chinese version. The machine was encouraging. What is really meant by encouraging. Does it mean very successful or very ideal? The second question is that if we were to use the bill validator in the future, what will be the cost implication of installing the machine of that nature? The third question is: Mr. MA Lee-wo last year had proposed that perhaps we could interface with the MTRC computer system. The reply given to us was that the investment was 100 costly. But we spent a lot of money, say we spent $400,000 in decorating the Lion Club's float, so if $4 million is worth spending, we can consider interfacing our system with the MTRC. May I suggest that for some highly patronized swimming pools can we consider using bill validators? Of course, for low patronizing venue it is not economical to have this kind of machine, but for other places which are highly patronized, it is advisable.
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese):---Let me explain what is meant by encouraging, Mr. Chairman. Encouraging implies that up to the present moment the result of the trial is highly satisfactory. If such highly satisfactory result could continue, I believe that the Department would recommend to adopt the system. And I told members that I have used the bill validator system and I have repeated to use it many many times and the change given to me was the correct amount. The second question of Mr. Mok is connected with the installation cost of the bill validator. If we adopt this system the cost would be in the region of $2.3 million and the yearly operating cost and the maintenance cost is in the region of $50,000. I like to mention, by the way, the third question in connection with the interfacing with the computer system of the MTRC and
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the installation cost involved. I would like to inform members that the installation cost would be in the region of $4 million and the annual operation cost would be $4 million as well. So the initial capital cost plus the annual operation cost would be an important point to consider.
MR. MOK YING-FAN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. WONG that he mentioned that the annual operation cost is $4 million, is he referring to the operation cost of one set of machine or the whole set of system?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese):-The whole set of system.
MR. MOK YING-FAN (in Cantonese):—So you are talking about the whole set of system that controls all swimming pools, right?
MR. RONNIE WONG MAN-CHIU (in Cantonese):—Yes.
MOTIONS
1. MR. JOSEPH CHAN YUET-SUT, CHAIRMAN OF THE LIBRARIES SELECT COMMITTEE, moved the following motion:-
'RESOLVED that the Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order 1992 and (No. 2) Order 1992 be made under section 105K of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, Cap. 132.'
He said (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I rise to move the motion standing in my name:
'RESOLVED that the Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order 1992 and (No. 2) Order 1992 be made under section 105K of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, Cap. 132.'
The purposes of these orders are to designate the premises on the ground and first floors of No. 19 Lai Wan Road, Kowloon as a library, cancel the designation of Nos. 131 and 132 of the second floor of the building known as Towers 92-93 at 102B Broadway, Mei Foo Sun Chuen, Kowloon as a library and to amend Schedule to the Designation of Libraries (Urban Council Area) Order (Cap. 132 Sub. leg.).
I beg to move.
MR. PAUL YOUNG TZE-KONG (in English):-I second the motion.
The question was put.
The motion was carried unanimously.
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