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The Department continually keeps abreast of new developments in the market. It keeps in close liaison with other Government departments such as Buildings and Lands Department and the Drainage Services Department on the availability of equipment capable of detecting embedded leaking pipes within buildings. Infra red scanning has been investigated. Infra red scanning regrettably will only detect accumulations of water in cracks but not defective pipes per se. Indeed, the Director of Buildings and Lands continues to primarily rely on colour dye testing to trace the source of leakage pipes in buildings.
Although colour dye testing remains an effective method for tracing ceiling leakage, the Department will continue to keep abreast of technological developments particularly if this could lead to a reduction in the processing time for investigating such nuisances.
MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):-I would like to refer to paragraph 5 of the reply. If colour dye tests show that the problem lies with the premises above, can prosecution actions be then taken against the occupiers of the premises immediately above the affected parts? If repair work is not subsequently taken, do the colour dye tests have any legal backing?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Well, as stated in my reply, if colour dye tests are positive, then according to section 12(1)(a) and 127 of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, actions can be taken. It can lead to prosecution. Of course, the occupiers will be advised to repair the water pipes first. But if the cases go to court, then the maximum fine can be $5,000 and the daily fine will be $100 if the leakage still continues.
MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):-Let me follow up. I have listened to the explanation given by Mr. PAO. After the Water Supplies Department, Buildings and Lands Department and USD have taken their actions it might together take one year. If the problem still remains unresolved, what other avenues are available for the occupiers to ask for help in this respect?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):-Well, there are two possibilities, Mr. Chairman. First, after all these detailed procedures, the causes have not been traced. Then, it is a very difficult problem indeed in some cases, e.g. in the past 12 months we have received some 2000 such cases and for 900 it was very difficult to trace the cause of the problem. These are indeed very difficult cases because we cannot then take prosecution actions against anyone. We cannot take prosecution actions against all occupiers in the building. Perhaps the occupiers have to undertake some remedial work. But there is another scenario. The detailed procedure will enable us to trace the cause of the problem. If that is the case, then the Government departments will look at whose legal liability e.g. if it is caused by the premises immediately above the affected parts, then the occupiers of the premises concerned will be responsible. But then if the leaking pipes are the common pipes to all the building, then we will have to look at the
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deeds and mutual covenants to take actions accordingly. Now Mr. IP refers the cases where all these actions may have taken one year because of the long procedure, I have explained why the procedure has to take so long. According to information that I have, bearing in mind the difficulties in tracing the cause, it is necessary to take quite some time to complete. In any case, USD, Drainage Services Department and also Water Supplies Department have carried out a review of procedures to see whether the processing time could be shortened. I am glad to tell Mr. Ip that these Departments are at present drafting an instructional guide to shorten the time required for processing such complaints.
MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I have two questions. First, for similar cases we often encounter some difficulties. If we want to gain access to the premises immediately above the affected parts in order to carry out a colour dye test, the occupiers of those premises immediately above the affected parts may not cooperate with USD staff. Under existing law or as far as jurisdiction of USD is concerned, what actions can be taken to ensure that we can have cooperation from the occupiers of these premises and to overcome these difficulties? Second, Mr. PAO refers to a review undertaken by USD, DSD and WSD so as to shorten the processing time for such complaints. From the viewpoint of UC, I wonder if the review also involves the power given to USD staff to enforce these actions and whether the power delegated to us at present is adequate to take enforcement actions? If not, how will the Council deal with the problem?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, with regard to the first question, should there be non-cooperative occupiers of the premises immediately above the affected parts, can we still insist on investigatory work. Well, it is true that uncooperative occupiers present difficulties to us. But then in the end if actions have to be taken we can apply for approval for necessary actions to be undertaken. But up to now, it seems that these cases are not common at all. Secondly, with regard to the interdepartmental review, will the power presently given to USD be included in the review or study. Well, the answer is in the negative. We are presently studying the procedure to see whether there can be better coordination with other departments to shorten the time required for the procedure. With regard to Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG'S proposal on whether USD staff have sufficient power to deal with the problem of leakage, I am happy to refer the matter to the Public Health Select Committee to review that.
MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese):--Mr. Chairman, I indeed would like to ask the Public Health Select Committee to look at the power given to USD staff to deal with the problem. In fact, it is a time-consuming process because of the uncooperative attitude adopted by occupiers immediately above the affected parts. When we want to gain access to these premises, the procedure is very complex and it takes time. I thank Mr. PAO for giving me an answer.
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MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):—Let me follow up, Mr. Chairman, a question for Mr. PAO. It is mentioned that in some cases, if the cause cannot be traced, the affected occupiers will then be responsible. But in fact, the occupiers are sometimes rather helpless. Let me follow up with another question. Does the Council have the responsibility of tracing the cause of leakage?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, the Urban Council and the occupiers of the premises have the responsibilities to deal with the problems. Since the authority has been delegated to us, in private premises we have the authority to trace the source of the nuisance if complaints are received. I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to members of the public that proper maintenance of their flats is also one of the responsibilities of the flat owners.
2. MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question (in English):-Blocks Nos. 1 to 8 Chaiwan Estate, have already been demolished and ready for redevelopment. A site at the former Block 1 was already scheduled to build a new market, particularly to resite the stallholders of the Chaiwan Temporary Market in 1993. Apparently, there has been a delay and many people in Chaiwan are wondering why. Could they be given the reason? and when will the work now be started?
DR. THE HON. SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, Chairman of THE CAPITAL WORKS SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English): Mr. Chairman, Mr. BERNACCHI's question concerns the progress on the planning and construction of a market in Chaiwan for reprovisioning the displaced lessees of the Chaiwan Temporary Market.
The site in question has been earmarked for the development of a UC Complex, to include the following facilities:
(a) a market and a refuse collection point; (b) a district library; and
(c) an office for district hygiene staff.
Council's latest project programme indicates that construction of this planned complex is scheduled to commence in late 1994, for completion in late 1995.
The total floor areas required for the identified facilities will take up only about 30% of the site potential. Eventually, if the development proceeds on such a basis, it would result in significant under-utilization of the site. A comprehensive and exhaustive search has been made by the Department on the possible need for an additional Council facility that might also be incorporated into this Complex but without positive result. The Government has also been approached to see if it is interested in joint development to accommodate government offices or public facilities. This latter attempt also did not produce any favourable outcome.
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The Department continually keeps abreast of new developments in the market. It keeps in close liaison with other Government departments such as Buildings and Lands Department and the Drainage Services Department on the availability of equipment capable of detecting embedded leaking pipes within buildings. Infra red scanning has been investigated. Infra red scanning regrettably will only detect accumulations of water in cracks but not defective pipes per se. Indeed, the Director of Buildings and Lands continues to primarily rely on colour dye testing to trace the source of leakage pipes in buildings.
Although colour dye testing remains an effective method for tracing ceiling leakage, the Department will continue to keep abreast of technological developments particularly if this could lead to a reduction in the processing time for investigating such nuisances.
MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):-I would like to refer to paragraph 5 of the reply. If colour dye tests show that the problem lies with the premises above, can prosecution actions be then taken against the occupiers of the premises immediately above the affected parts? If repair work is not subsequently taken, do the colour dye tests have any legal backing?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Well, as stated in my reply, if colour dye tests re positive, then according to section 12(1)(a) and 127 of the Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance, actions can be taken. It can lead to prosecution. Of course, the occupiers will be advised to repair the water pipes first. But if the cases go to court, then the maximum fine can be $5,000 and the daily fine will be $100 if the leakage still continues.
MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):-Let me follow up. I have listened to the explanation given by Mr. PAO. After the Water Supplies Department, Buildings and Lands Department and USD have taken their actions it might together take one year. If the problem still remains unresolved, what other avenues are available for the occupiers to ask for help in this respect?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):-Well, there are two possibilities, Mr. Chairman. First, after all these detailed procedures, the causes have not been traced. Then, it is a very difficult problem indeed in some cases, e.g. in the past 12 months we have received some 2000 such cases and for 900 it was very difficult to trace the cause of the problem. These are indeed very difficult cases because we cannot then take prosecution actions against anyone. We cannot take prosecution actions against all occupiers in the building. Perhaps the occupiers have to undertake some remedial work. But there is another scenario. The detailed procedure will enable us to trace the cause of the problem. If that is the case, then the Government departments will look at whose legal liability e.g. if it is caused by the premises immediately above the affected parts, then the occupiers of the premises concerned will be responsible. But then if the leaking pipes are the common pipes to all the building, then we will have to look at the
Page 120 of 126
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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deeds and mutual covenants to take actions accordingly. Now Mr. IP refers the cases where all these actions may have taken one year because of the long procedure, I have explained why the procedure has to take so long. According to information that I have, bearing in mind the difficulties in tracing the cause, it is necessary to take quite some time to complete. In any case, USD, Drainages Services Department and also Water Supplies Department have carried out a review of procedures to see whether the processing time could be shortened. I am glad to tell Mr. Ip that these Departments are at present drafting an instructional guide to shorten the time required for processing such complaints.
MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I have two questions. First, for similar cases we often encounter some difficulties. If we want to gain access to the premises immediately above the affected parts in order to carry out a colour dye test, the occupiers of those premises immediately above the affected parts may not cooperate with USD staff. Under existing law or as far as jurisdiction of USD is concerned, what actions can be taken to ensure that we can have cooperation from the occupiers of these premises and to overcome these difficulties? Second, Mr. PAO refers to a review undertaken by USD, DSD and WSD so as to shorten the processing time for such complaints. From the view point ot UC, I wonder if the review also involves the power given to USD staff to enforce these actions and whether the power delegated to us at present is adequate to take enforcement actions? If not, how will the Council deal with the problem?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, with regard to the first question, should there be non-cooperative occupiers of the premises im- mediately above the affected parts, can we still insist on investigatory work. Well, it is true that uncooperative occupiers present difficulties to us. But then in the end if actions have to be taken we can apply for approval for necessary actions to be undertaken. But up to now, it seems that these cases are not common at all. Secondly, with regard to the inter departmental review, will the power presently given to USD be included in the review or study. Well, the answer is in the negative. We are presently studying the procedure to see whether there can be better coordination with other departments to shorten the time required for the procedure. With regard to Mr. Ambrose CHEUNG'S proposal on whether USD staff have sufficient power to deal with the problem of leakage, I am happy to refer the matter to the Public Health Select Committee to review that.
MR. AMBROSE CHEUNG WING-SUM (in Cantonese):--Mr. Chairman, I indeed would like to ask the Public Health Select Committee to look at the power given to USD staff to deal with the problem. In fact, it is a time consuming process because of the uncooperative attitude adopted by occupiers immediately above the affected parts. When we want to gain access to these premises, the procedure is very complex and it takes time. I thank Mr. PAO for giving me an answer.
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MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):—Let me follow up, Mr. Chairman, a question for Mr. PÃO. It is mentioned that in some cases, if the cause cannot be tracted, the affected occupiers will then be responsible. But in fact the occupiers are sometimes rather helpless. Let me follow up with another question. Does the Council have the responsibility of tracing the cause of leakage?
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, the Urban Council and the occupiers of the premises have the responsibilities to deal with the problems. Since the authority has been delegated to us, in private premises we have the authority to trace the source of the nuisance if complaints are received. I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to members of the public that proper maintenance of their flats is also one of the responsibilities of the flat
owners.
2. MR. B. A. BERNACCHI asked the following question (in English):-Blocks Nos. 1 to 8 Chaiwan Estate, have already been demolished and ready for redevelopment. A site at the former Block 1 was already scheduled to build a new market, particularly to resite the stallholders of the Chaiwan Temporary Market in 1993. Apparently, there has been a delay and many people in Chaiwan are wondering why. Could they be given the reason? and when will the work now be started?
DR. THE HON. SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, Chairman of THE CAPITAL WORKS SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English): Mr. Chairman, Mr. BERNACCHI's question concerns the progress on the planning and construction of a market in Chaiwan for reprovisioning the displaced lessees of the Chaiwan Temporary Market.
The site in question has been earmarked for the development of a UC Complex, to include the following facilities:
(a) a market and a refuse collection point; (b) a district library; and
(c) an office for district hygiene staff.
Council's latest project programme indicates that construction of this planned complex is scheduled to commence in late 1994, for completion in late 1995.
The total floor areas required for the identified facilities will take up only about 30% of the site potential. Eventually if the development proceeds on such a basis, it would result in significant under-utilization of the site. A comprehensive and exhaustive search has been made by the Department on the possible need for an additional Council facilities that might also be incorporated into this Complex but without positive result. The Government has also been approached to see if it is interested in joint development to accommodate government offices or public facilities. This latter attempt also did not produce any favourable outcome.
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