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now the Central Government is now cutting its expenditure on social welfare and the Society of Hong Kong is aging, so I wonder whether the Jockey Club should use their money flexibly on the elderly people instead of on the Hong Kong Stadium. Fourthly, about 3 to 4 years ago, we suggested that the seating capacity should be increased in the Hong Kong Stadium but the Commissioner of Police commented that this would not be advisable in view of the crowd control and transport problems. So why the project would not pose such problems now? Fifthly, year ago, the Central Government would like to build a modernized stadium in the western part of the Hong Kong Island, in the newly reclaimed area. I think the western reclamation areas would be the best choice considering the factors of transport, car-parking and engineering design flexibility. Sixthly, is it true that the Government approved of this re-development proposal mainly because it is interested in a vacant site close to the Hong Kong Stadium to build the headquarters of the Sports Development Board and offices of the national sports associations. The Rugby Seven competition is particularly given preferential treatment by the Government. Last Wednesday evening, I had a dinner with Mr. FORSGATE, the previous CUC, who said it was not worthwhile to use 850 million dollars to redevelop the Hong Kong Stadium just to stage Rugby Seven which only lasted for several days in a year. Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
THE HON. LI WAH-MING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I have to declare my interest that I am not a horse punter nor a member of the Jockey Club and from the education sector. So I can view this matter from a very objective point of view. I don't think at this point we should talk about the management of HK Stadium from the beginning of this debate. The issue is very complicated. If the Urban Council wants to fight for its management responsibility, it will be put into a situation of dilemma. It is because the Council was not involved in the formulation of design and scope of proposed facilities. Unfortunately, we knew that the redevelopment would not include the track and this has generated a lot of controversy. There are a lot of petitions from the education sector. Fortunately, the education sector has not accused the Urban Council of making such situation. But if we do fight for the management responsibility and if we succeed in getting the management responsibility, and yet in the end the Hong Kong Stadium is not provided with a track, then the accusations will point to us. The Secretary for Recreation and Culture attended a briefing on the potential redevelopment of the Hong Kong Stadium, If Mr. WONG requested that, I think he was referring to Mr. James So should resign. If an official made a mistake, it doesn't mean that he has to resign right away because if so, then a lot of officials will have to resign. I think this motion can force the Government to reconsider the problem. The Jockey Club's consultancy study on the redevelopment of the Hong Kong Stadium has put much weight to the minority interest. I think it has over emphasised the possibility of having a venue for international concert. It has been emphasized that by April 1994 when the redevelopment is scheduled to be completed, then there will be a very large scale rugby event to be held to celebrate the opening of the new Stadium.
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The redevelopment proposal also includes the provision of a lot of corporate boxes for company hiring. We are now talking a situation where somebody is willing to spend money to beautify and modernize our facilities, but unfortunately, we have not been consulted on how best it is to be modernized and that is the crux of the issue. If we fight for the management responsibility when we are kept so much in the dark, is it really a dangerous thing to do? But on the other hand, if we pass the management responsibility to the other side, then we would lose face. I think at this point little can be done because the Jockey Club has already spent money on the consultancy and the project is very close to commencing. It is scheduled to be completed within these two years, costing 85 million dollars. So what we can do now is to urge the Government to evaluate the demands of the schools for sport venue on the Hong Kong Island. To what extent do schools on Hong Kong side need sports venue? Is it true that there is a shortage of sport venues on Hong Kong side even with the retention of the athletic track in the Hong Kong Stadium? They do not agree to the proposal of expanding the Wong Chuk Hang Sports Ground as a replacement venue, so we have to see whether if we increase the seating capacity of Wong Chuk Hang Sports Ground to 10,000, the demand still cannot be met. How bad is the shortage regarding the retention of the track in the Hong Kong Stadium? I feel pessimistic on the retention of the athletic track and so I think we should look the remedial measures. In the past, we had not been involved in the conceptual stage of the redevelopment and that is very unfortunate but I think we should not cry over split milk. I think we should look ahead and the wordings of Mr. CHAN'S motion are very moderate and are certainly not consistent with the tone of his speech. But still I support the motion.
MR. SAN STEPHEN WONG HON-CHING (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, concerning the redevelopment of the Hong Kong Stadium, I am very discontented with the decision-making and the consultation processes. The Recreation and Culture Branch imposed their decision on us. They announced a fait accompli to us and showed no respect whatsoever to the Council. The Hong Kong Stadium is the only venue which has the potential of being redeveloped into a modernized athletic ground. But if the running track is going to be deleted, I think that will not be a very good idea. Mr. Chairman, in view of the lack of sufficient information, it is impossible to express our views on the redevelopment project. What my colleagues have spoken are in fact based on what they have heard and thought. Concerning financial aspect, the management and future transport arrangement, I think that the information is seriously lacking. I asked the Jockey Club and the Recreational and Culture Branch at the briefing on these questions. They said the time for evacuation in other Stadium was about 8 minutes and for a seating capacity of 40,000 people, the time needed for is 12 minutes. Now if you go to the Hong Kong Stadium with the existing seating capacity of 28 thousand, the evacuation time for 12 minutes, is not adequate. If it is on flat ground, then 12 minutes may be adequate. But let's look at the situation in the Hong Kong Stadium, 12 minutes will not be sufficient for dispersing the crowd. You can go there and have a
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now the Central Government is now cutting its expenditure on social welfare and the Socity of Hong Kong is aging, so I wonder whether the Jockey Club should use their money flexibly on the elderly people instead of on the Hong Kong Stadium. Fourthly, about 3 to 4 years ago, we suggested that the seating capacity should be increased in the Hong Kong Stadium but the Commissioner of Police commented that this would not be advisable in view of the crowd control and transport problems. So why the project would not pose such problems now? Fifthly, year ago, the Central Government would like to build a modernized stadium in the western part of the Hong Kong Island, in the newly reclaimed area. I think the western reclamation areas would be the best choice considering the factors of transport, carparking and engineering design flexibility. Sixthly, is it true that the Government approved of this re- development proposal mainly because it is interested in a vacant site close to the Hong Kong Stadium to build the headquarters of the Sports Development Board and offices of the national sports associations. The Rugby Seven competition is particularly given preferential treatment by the Government. Last Wednesday evening, I had a dinner with Mr. FORSGATE, the previous CUC, who said it was not worthwhile to use 850 million dollars to redevelop the Hong Kong Stadium just to stage Rugby Seven which only lasted for several days in a year. Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
THE HON. LI WAH-MING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I have to declare my interest that I am not a horse punter nor a member of the Jockey Club and from the education sector. So I can view this matter from a very objective point of view. I don't think at this point we should talk about the management of HK Stadium from the beginning of this debate. The issue is very complicated. If the Urban Council wants to fight for its management responsibility, it will be put into a situation of dilemma. It is because the Council was not involved in the formulation of design and scope of proposed facilities. Unfortunately, we knew that the redevelopment would not include the track and this has generated a lot of controversy. There are a lot of petitions from the education sector. Fortunately, the education sector has not accused the Urban Council of making such situation. But if we do fight for the management responsibility and if we succeed in getting the management responsibility, and yet in the end the Hong Kong Stadium is not provided with a track, then the accusations will point to us. The Secretary for Recreation and Culture attended a briefing on the potential redevelopment of the Hong Kong Stadium, If Mr. WONG requested that, I think he was referring to Mr. James So should resign. If an official made a mistake, it doesn't mean that he has to resign right away because if so, then a lot of officials will have to resign. I think this motion can force the Government to reconsider the problem. The Jockey Club's consultancy study on the redevelopment of the Hong Kong Stadium has put much weight to the minority interest. I think it has over emphasised the possibility of having a venue for international concert. It has been emphasized that by April 1994 when the redevelopment is scheduled to be completed, then there will be a very large scale rugby event to be held to celebrate the opening of the new Stadium. The
Page 91 of 126
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redevelopment proposal also includes the provision of a lot of corporate boxes for company hiring. We are now talking a situation where somebody is willing to spend money to beautify and modernize our facilities, but unfortunately, we have not been consulted on how best it is to be modernized and that is the crux of the issue. If we fight for the management responsbility when we are kept so much in the dark, is it really a dangerous thing to do? But on the other hand, if we pass the management responsibility to the other side, then we would lose face. I think at this point little can be done because the Jockey Club has already spent money on the consultancy and the project is very close to commencing. It is scheduled to be completed within these two years, costing 85 million dollars. So what we can do now is to urge the Government to evaluate the demands of the schools for sport venue on the Hong Kong Island. To what extent do schools on Hong Kong side need sports venue? Is it true that there is a shortage of sport venues on Hong Kong side even with the retention of the athletic track in the Hong Kong Stadium? They do not agree to the proposal of expanding the Wong Chuk Hang Sports Ground as a replacement venue, so we have to see whether if we increase the seating capacity of Wong Chuk Hang Sports Ground to 10 000, the demand still cannot be met. How bad is the shortage regarding the retention of the track in the Hong Kong Stadium? I feel pessimistic on the retention of the athletic track and so I think we should look the remedial measures. In the past, we had not been involved in the conceptual stage of the redevelopment and that is very unfortunate but I think we should not cry over split milk. I think we should look ahead and the wordings of Mr. CHAN'S motion are very moderate and are certainly not consistent with the tone of his speech. But still I support the motion.
MR. SAN STEPHEN WONG HON-CHING (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, concerning the redevelopment of the Hong Kong Stadium, I am very dis- contented with the decision-making and the consultation processes. The Recreation and Culture Branch imposed their decision on us. They announced a fait accomplice to us and showed no respect whatsoever to the Council. The Hong Kong Stadium is the only venue which has the potential of being redeveloped into a modernized athletic ground. But if the running track is going to be deleted, I think that will not be a very good idea. Mr. Chairman, in view of the lack of sufficient information, it is impossible to express our views on the redevelopment project. What my colleagues have spoken are in fact based on what they have heard and thought. Concerning financial aspect, the management and future transport arrangement, I think that the information is seriously lacking. I asked the Jockey Club and the Recreational and Culture Branch at the briefing on these questions. They said the time for evacuation in other Stadium was about 8 minutes and for a seating capacity of 40 000 people, the time needed for is 12 minutes. Now if you go to the Hong Kong Stadium with the existing seating capacity of 28 thousand, the evacuation time for 12 minutes, is not adequate. If it is on flat ground, then 12 minutes may be adequate. But let's look at the situation in the Hong Kong Stadium, 12 minutes will not be sufficient for dispersing the crowd. You can go there and have a
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