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The question on Mr. Peter C. K. CHAN'S motion was put.
The motion referring the matter to the Select Committee was lost with 10 votes for, 16 against and 7 abstentions. (The Chairman did not vote.)
CHAIRMAN (in English):---Mr. Peter CHAN's motion is defeated.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English):-Mr. Chairman, reply from me please.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-You want to exercise the right of reply to the original motion?
Mr. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English): Yes, indeed. The object of this motion is simply to make the GD Teams more effective on the ground than they are at present. The stallholders in particular are very worried as to the lack of control of the Urban Council through the GD Teams. At present, in particular of course in my own constituency, but I think undoubtedly all over the urban area, the GD Teams do want to be on the ground not in the police station. At present, the GD Teams spend very very much more time in the police station than they do on the ground. Of course, hawking has been insoluble for more than a hundred years and my motion today will not produce a solution, but at least in my own thinking is worth trying. All will remember that the GD Teams have the ultimate weapon of arrest and they are at liberty to use that weapon whenever they think that it is necessary. Certainly, whenever the hawkers themselves, legal or illegal, mainly illegal I agree with Elsie, do not obey the instruction to disperse. Mr. Joseph CHAN referred to Jesus. If I remember the story rightly, Jesus did not arrest, he dispersed (laughter). So it is up to Members to defeat the motion if they like. I myself was in support of referring the whole matter to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, but now, in my opinion, it is up to Council to give it a try. As regards the comment made by the Vice-Chairman on the danger of the violence to the GD Teams members, in my opinion it is very much easier for violence to arise when chasing a hawker to arrest him. When dispersing hawkers, I myself think that the hawkers would disperse. If the general policy was to disperse the hawkers in the surrounds of the markets, I'm not suggesting anywhere else where there are GD Teams. I am confining the motion to the surrounds of the markets. It is mainly of course at present, the market stallholders are not making a fair amount of money from their stalls and having to themselves imitate the illegal hawkers and go out to hawk outside using their stalls as storage purposes, a completely ridiculous position. Therefore, I urge Members to vote for this motion.
(Mr. CHAN Tak-chor left at 3.32 p.m.).
The question on Mr. B. A. BERNACCHI's original motion was put.
The motion was lost with 2 votes for and 30 against. (The Chairman did not vote.)
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ADJOURNMENT-3.34 p.m.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-That concludes the business of today's meeting. The Council stands adjourned until Tuesday, 14 May 1991 at 2.30 p.m.
PRINTED AND PUBLISHED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, HONG KONG
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16
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The question on Mr. Peter C. K. CHAN'S motion was put.
The motion referring the matter to the Select Committee was lost with 10 votes for, 16 against and 7 abstentions. (The Chairman did not vote.)
CHAIRMAN (in English):---Mr. Peter CHAN's motion is defeated.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English):-Mr. Chairman, reply from me please.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-You want to exercise the right of reply to the original motion?
Mr. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English): Yes, indeed. The object of this motion is simply to make the GD Teams more effective on the ground than they are at present. The stallholders in particular are very worried as to the lack of control of the Urban Council through the GD Teams. At present, in particular of course in my own constituency, but I think undoubtedly all over the urban area, the GD Teams do want to be on the ground not in the police station. At present, the GD Teams spend very very much more time in the police station than they do on the ground. Of course, hawking has been insoluble for more than hundred of years and my motion today will not produce a solution, but at least in my own thinking is worth trying. All will remember that the GD Teams have the ultimate weapon of arrest and they are at liberty to use that weapon whenever they think that it is necessary. Certainly, whenever the hawkers themselves, legal or illegal, mainly illegal I agree with Elsie, do not obey the instruction to disperse. Mr. Joseph CHAN referred to Jesus. If I remember the story rightly, Jesus did not arrest, he dispersed (laughter). So it is up to Members to defeat the motion if they like. I myself was in support of referring the whole matter to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, but now, in my opinion, it is up to Council to give it a try. As regards the comment made by the Vice-Chairman on the danger of the violence to the GD Teams members, in my opinion it is very much easier for violence to arise when chasing a hawker to arrest him. When dispersing hawkers, I myself think that the hawkers would disperse. If the general policy was to disperse the hawkers in the surrounds of the markets, I'm not suggesting anywhere else where there are GD Teams. I am confining the motion to the surrounds of the markets. It is mainly of course at present, the market stallholders are not making a fair amount of money from their stalls and having to themselves imitate the illegal hawkers and go out to hawk outside using their stalls as storage purposes, a completely ridiculous position. Therefore, I urge Members to vote for this motion.
(Mr. CHAN Tak-chor left at 3.32 p.m.).
The question on Mr. B. A. BERNACCHI's original motion was put.
The motion was lost with 2 votes for and 30 against. (The Chairman did not vote.) Page 9 of 126
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
ADJOURNMENT-3.34 p.m.
17
CHAIRMAN (in English):-That concludes the business of today's meeting. The Council stands adjourned until Tuesday, 14 May 1991 at 2.30 p.m.
PRINTED AND PUBLISHED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER, HONG KONG
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