1991 — Page 102

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 102 of 126

182

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

and produced a significant deterrent effect. I would like to say that the deterrent effect is not so significant because even if you make prosecutions three times a month, you don't always prosecute the same people and in that case the subsequent prosecutions have already been taken into account by the offenders. They don't really mind being fined. We have been talking about a zero growth policy and given that circumstances, should we have to urge the Central Government not to impose a zero growth on us as it affects the operation of the USD?

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I welcome Mr. WONG's proposal and I definitely will follow up at the Select Committee.

MR. YIM KWOK-ON (in Cantonese):—Basically, the joint operations at night time have to rely on the co-operation of the Police and as the manpower of the Police is constrained by the zero growth policy, under these circumstances, does it mean that we have to let the problem deteriorate further?

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese): Actually, the illegal hawking at night is a territory-wide and serious problem. Given the existing resources, it is practically difficult for us to solve the problem within a short period of time. The GDTs will encounter physical danger—without the police backup, we are a little bit worried about their safety. The Select Committee will be very much concerned about the problem.

MR. VINCENT CHOW (in Cantonese):—Some Mong Kok residents have told me that actually these illegal cooked food hawkers were operators of the cooked food centres nearby. I would like to know whether it is true. If that is the case, can we employ relevant by-laws to cancel their licences?

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I don't have any information in hand. If what Mr. CHOW said is true, I would ask the Department to study in detail. If it is found to be true, appropriate action will be taken.

MR. RONNIE WONG (in Cantonese):—I think illegal cooked food hawkers on the street are doing something illegal. People who patronize these illegal hawkers are also breaking the laws. I would like to know if we want to solve the problem from the root by prosecuting people who patronize these illegal hawkers. If people cease to patronize the illegal hawkers, they will disappear soon. Could we consider this?

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I recall that similar proposals had been put forward at previous UC meeting. I think it would be difficult to prosecute the patrons of illegal cooked food hawkers. But I have to seek legal advice on this.

MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese):—Mr. CHAN Tak-chor has told us that when the GDT squads carried out arresting illegal cooked food hawkers in that particular evening, the situation had improved drastically. According to my experience and the conversation with some senior GDT staff, they gave me a quite

Page 102 of 126

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Page 102 of 126

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different picture because most of the unlicensed cooked food hawkers had anticipated the joint operations and they didn't mind being arrested as they had already calculated the cost of being fined. Say, operator A has been arrested, then operators B, C, D, E, F, G, can be sure that there will not be any operation at that evening, at least there will not be any joint operation in the short term. They are taking in turn to have themselves being arrested. If they are going to be fined, they are just paying the rent. So I would like to know particularly whether this fact has been taken into consideration or not? In the joint operations, after hawkers are arrested, a lot of manpower to take care or to process the prosecutions are involved leaving the remaining illegal hawkers to continue to operate safely. I would like to ask Mr. CHAN if he is aware of this problem and it is so, how is he going to deal with it?

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I think Mr. WONG's question can be divided into three parts. First, about the prosecution procedure after the arrest of illegal hawkers. Secondly, illegal hawkers who are left alone would be able to operate peacefully and thirdly how are we going to tackle this problem? As far as I know, during the joint operation if any arrest is made, not only one operator but actually all hawkers will be arrested before they are taken to the police station for statement. Actually at a previous Council Meeting, members have asked whether the procedure can be streamlined or whether it can be replaced by simpler method. I think the S/C will follow-up on this. As for how we are going to handle the joint operations, in the past, in many districts good joint operations would definitely yield a very positive result. Just like what has happened in Daimaru and Kwun Tong District. Joint operations in these districts have eradicated the problems caused by illegal cooked food hawkers to a large extent. But because of various factors, such operations have to be scaled down. That is why the problem has recurred. I would like to urge members of this council not only to ask questions but actually to give concrete proposals.

MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):—I would like to ask a question about the joint operations. As far as joint operation is concerned, actually some residents have made complaints that the number of joint operations is not enough. This is because of the manpower constraints faced by the Police. But on another occasion, the Police said that this was because of the manpower constraints in the Urban Services Department. So I would like to get an assurance from Mr. CHAN Tak-chor that if the Urban Services is not suffering from such manpower constraints and that it has the necessary manpower resources to carry out the joint operations with the Police.

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I think the Council can make the best use of the existing manpower resources to try to mount as many joint operations as possible. At the recent UC meeting, I have reiterated this point. I will pass the information given by Mr. YIP Kwok-chung to the Urban Services Department to see whether there is a shortage of manpower in USD or that of the Police who definitely has other priority over joint operations with the USD.

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Page 102 of 126 182 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL and produced a significant deterrent effect. I would like to say that the deterrent effect is not so significant because even if you make prosecutions three times a month, you don't always prosecute the same people and in that case the subsequent prosecutions have already been taken into account by the offenders. They don't really mind being fined. We have been talking about a zero growth policy and given that circumstances, should we have to urge the Central Government not to impose a zero growth on us as it affects the operation of the USD? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I welcome Mr. WONG's proposal and I definitely will follow up at the Select Committee. MR. YIM KWOK-ON (in Cantonese):—Basically, the joint operations at night time have to rely on the co-operation of the Police and as the manpower of the Police is constrained by the zero growth policy, under these circumstances, does it mean that we have to let the problem deteriorate further? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese): Actually, the illegal hawking at night is a territory-wide and serious problem. Given the existing resources, it is practically difficult for us to solve the problem within a short period of time. The GDTs will encounter physical danger—without the police backup, we are a little bit worried about their safety. The Select Committee will be very much concerned about the problem. MR. VINCENT CHOW (in Cantonese):—Some Mong Kok residents have told me that actually these illegal cooked food hawkers were operators of the cooked food centres nearby. I would like to know whether it is true. If that is the case, can we employ relevant by-laws to cancel their licences? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I don't have any information in hand. If what Mr. CHOW said is true, I would ask the Department to study in detail. If it is found to be true, appropriate action will be taken. MR. RONNIE WONG (in Cantonese):—I think illegal cooked food hawkers on the street are doing something illegal. People who patronize these illegal hawkers are also breaking the laws. I would like to know if we want to solve the problem from the root by prosecuting people who patronize these illegal hawkers. If people cease to patronize the illegal hawkers, they will disappear soon. Could we consider this? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I recall that similar proposals had been put forward at previous UC meeting. I think it would be difficult to prosecute the patrons of illegal cooked food hawkers. But I have to seek legal advice on this. MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese):—Mr. CHAN Tak-chor has told us that when the GDT squads carried out arresting illegal cooked food hawkers in that particular evening, the situation had improved drastically. According to my experience and the conversation with some senior GDT staff, they gave me a quite Page 102 of 126 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 102 of 126 183 different picture because most of the unlicensed cooked food hawkers had anticipated the joint operations and they didn't mind being arrested as they had already calculated the cost of being fined. Say, operator A has been arrested, then operators B, C, D, E, F, G, can be sure that there will not be any operation at that evening, at least there will not be any joint operation in the short term. They are taking in turn to have themselves being arrested. If they are going to be fined, they are just paying the rent. So I would like to know particularly whether this fact has been taken into consideration or not? In the joint operations, after hawkers are arrested, a lot of manpower to take care or to process the prosecutions are involved leaving the remaining illegal hawkers to continue to operate safely. I would like to ask Mr. CHAN if he is aware of this problem and it is so, how is he going to deal with it? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I think Mr. WONG's question can be divided into three parts. First, about the prosecution procedure after the arrest of illegal hawkers. Secondly, illegal hawkers who are left alone would be able to operate peacefully and thirdly how are we going to tackle this problem? As far as I know, during the joint operation if any arrest is made, not only one operator but actually all hawkers will be arrested before they are taken to the police station for statement. Actually at a previous Council Meeting, members have asked whether the procedure can be streamlined or whether it can be replaced by simpler method. I think the S/C will follow-up on this. As for how we are going to handle the joint operations, in the past, in many districts good joint operations would definitely yield a very positive result. Just like what has happened in Daimaru and Kwun Tong District. Joint operations in these districts have eradicated the problems caused by illegal cooked food hawkers to a large extent. But because of various factors, such operations have to be scaled down. That is why the problem has recurred. I would like to urge members of this council not only to ask questions but actually to give concrete proposals. MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):—I would like to ask a question about the joint operations. As far as joint operation is concerned, actually some residents have made complaints that the number of joint operations is not enough. This is because of the manpower constraints faced by the Police. But on another occasion, the Police said that this was because of the manpower constraints in the Urban Services Department. So I would like to get an assurance from Mr. CHAN Tak-chor that if the Urban Services is not suffering from such manpower constraints and that it has the necessary manpower resources to carry out the joint operations with the Police. MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I think the Council can make the best use of the existing manpower resources to try to mount as many joint operations as possible. At the recent UC meeting, I have reiterated this point. I will pass the information given by Mr. YIP Kwok-chung to the Urban Services Department to see whether there is a shortage of manpower in USD or that of the Police who definitely has other priority over joint operations with the USD. Page 102 of 126

Baseline (Original)

Page 102 of 126 182 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL and produced a significant deterrent effect. I would like to say that the deterrent effect is not so significant because even if you make prosecutions three times a month, you don't always prosecute the same people and in that case the subsequent prosecutions have already been taken into account by the offenders. They don't really mind being fined. We have been talking about a zero growth policy and given that circumstances, should we have to urge the Central Government not to impose a zero growth on us as it affects the operation of the USD? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I wellcome Mr. WONG's proposal and I definitely will follow up at the Select Committee. MR. YIM KWOK-ON (in Cantonese):- Basically, the joint operations at night time have to rely on the co-operation of the Police and as the manpower of the Police is constrained by the zero growth policy, under these circumstances, does it mean that we have to let the problem deteroriate further? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese): Actually, the illegal hawking at night is a territory-wide and serious problem. Given the existing resources, it is practically difficult for us to solve the problem within a short period of time. The GDTs will encounter physical danger--without the police backup, we are a little bit worried about their safety. The Select Committee will be very much concerned about the problem. MR. VINCENT CHOW (in Cantonese):—Some Mong Kok residents have told me that actually these illegal cooked food hawkers were operators of the cooked food centres nearby. I would like to know whether it is true. If that is the case, can we employ relevant by-laws to cancel their licences? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I don't have any information in hand. If what Mr. CHOW said is true, I would ask the Department to study in detail. If it is found to be true, appropriate action will be taken. MR. RONNIE WONG (in Cantonese):—I think illegal cooked food hawkers on the street are doing something illegal. People who patronize these illegal hawkers are also breaking the laws. I would like to know if we want to solve the problem from the root by prosecuting people who patronize these illegal hawkers. If people cease to patronize the illegal hawkers, they will disappear soon. Could we consider this? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I recall that similar proposals had been put forward at previous UC meeting. I think it would be difficult to prosecute the patrons of illegal cooked food hawkers. But I have to seek legal advice on this. MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese):-Mr. CHAN Tak-chor has told us that when the GDT squads carried out in arresting illegal cooked food hawkers in that particular evening, the situation had improved drastically. According to my experience and the conversation with some senior GDT staff, they gave me a quite Page 102 of 126 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 102 of 126 183 different picture because most of the unlicensed cooked food hawkers had anticipated the joint operations and they didn't mind being arrested as they had already calculated the cost of being fined. Say, operator A has been arrested, then operators B, C, D, E, F, G, can be sure that there will not be any operation at that evening, at least there will not be any joint operation in the short term. They are taking in turn to have themselves being arrested. If they are going to be fined, they are just paying the rent. So I would like to know particularly whether this fact has been taken into consideration or not? In the joint operations, after hawkers are arrested, a lot of manpower to take care or to process the prosecutions are involved leaving the remaining illegal hawkers to continue to operate safely. I would like to ask Mr. CHAN if he is aware of this problem and it is so, how is he going to deal with it? MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):-I think Mr. WONG's question can be divided into three parts. First, about the prosecution procedure after the arrest of illegal hawkers. Secondly, illegal hawkers who are left alone would be able to operate peacefully and thirdly how are we going to tackle this problem? As far as I know, during the joint operation if any arrest is made, not only one operator but actually all hawkers will be arrested before they are taken to the police station for statement. Actually at a previous Council Meeting, members have asked whether the procedure can be streamlined or whether it can be replaced by simpler method. I think the S/C will follow-up on this. As for how we are going to handle the joint operations, in the past, in many districts good joint operations would definitely yield a very positive result. Just like what has happened in Daimaru and Kwun Tong District. Joint operations in these districts have eradicated the problems caused by illegal cooked food hawkers to a large extent. But because of various factors, such operations have to be scaled down. That is why the problem has recured. I would like to urge members of this council not only to ask questions but actually to give concrete proposals. MR. IP KWOK-CHUNG (in Cantonese):—I would like to ask a question about the joint operations. As far as joint operation is concerned, actually some residents have made complaints that the number of joint operations is not enough. This is because of the manpower constraints faced by the Police. But on another occasion, the Police said that this was because of the manpower constraints in the Urban Services Department. So I would like to get an assurance from Mr. CHAN Tak-chor that if the Urban Services is not suffering from such manpower constraints and that it has the necessary manpower resources to carry out the joint operations with the Police. MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):--I think the Council can make the best use of the existing manpower resources to try to mount as many joint operations as possible. At the recent UC meeting, I have reiterated this point. I will pass the information given by Mr. YIP Kwok-chung to the Urban Services Department to see whether there is a shortage of manpower in USD or that of the Police who definitely has other priority over joint operations with the USD. Page 102 of 126

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Page 102 of 126

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):—I wellcome Mr. WONG's proposal and I definitely will follow up at the Select Committee.

MR. YIM KWOK-ON (in Cantonese):- Basically, the joint operations at night time have to rely on the co-operation of the Police and as the manpower of the Police is constrained by the zero growth policy, under these circumstances, does it mean that we have to let the problem deteroriate further?

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese): Actually, the illegal hawking at night is a territory-wide and serious problem. Given the existing resources, it is practically difficult for us to solve the problem within a short period of time. The GDTs will encounter physical danger--without the police backup, we are a little bit worried about their safety. The Select Committee will be very much concerned about the problem.

MR. WONG SHUI-LAI (in Cantonese):-Mr. CHAN Tak-chor has told us that when the GDT squads carried out in arresting illegal cooked food hawkers in that particular evening, the situation had improved drastically. According to my experience and the conversation with some senior GDT staff, they gave me a quite

Page 102 of 126

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

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183

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):-I think Mr. WONG's question can be divided into three parts. First, about the prosecution procedure after the arrest of illegal hawkers. Secondly, illegal hawkers who are left alone would be able to operate peacefully and thirdly how are we going to tackle this problem? As far as I know, during the joint operation if any arrest is made, not only one operator but actually all hawkers will be arrested before they are taken to the police station for statement. Actually at a previous Council Meeting, members have asked whether the procedure can be streamlined or whether it can be replaced by simpler method. I think the S/C will follow-up on this. As for how we are going to handle the joint operations, in the past, in many districts good joint operations would definitely yield a very positive result. Just like what has happened in Daimaru and Kwun Tong District. Joint operations in these districts have eradicated the problems caused by illegal cooked food hawkers to a large extent. But because of various factors, such operations have to be scaled down. That is why the problem has recured. I would like to urge members of this council not only to ask questions but actually to give concrete proposals.

MR. CHAN TAK-CHOR (in Cantonese):--I think the Council can make the best use of the existing manpower resources to try to mount as many joint operations as possible. At the recent UC meeting, I have reiterated this point. I will pass the information given by Mr. YIP Kwok-chung to the Urban Services Department to see whether there is a shortage of manpower in USD or that of the Police who definitely has other priority over joint operations with the USD.

1991 — Page 102

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