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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
I suggest 6 from Hong Kong, 6 from Kowloon and 6 from New Territories. The voters having 6 votes each, and the first 6 persons having the top number of votes being declared to be elected to the Legislative Council. Of course, it would be better both for Hong Kong and for China to observe the same fundamentals in the way Hong Kong is governed before and after 1997, but between 1991 and 1994 I hope that some reasonable expansion of this number of 18 can be agreed upon by both parties. In the absence of such agreement, I do not myself feel bound to adopt the same attitude towards the numbers of directly elected councillors in that year 1994 as may be laid down in the Basic Law.
(2) The question of the Vietnamese refugees
There have been a lot of criticism throughout the world of compulsory return to Vietnam of people screened out from refugee status. However, it must be remembered that this is because that status, by United Nations definition, does NOT include economic refugees. In my opinion, now that the screening system has been accepted by almost the whole world, we must return to Vietnam the Vietnamese people screened out from being genuine refugees, in accordance with International Law, compulsory if necessary. We cannot keep them in camps year after year with no hope of any country taking them from us, remember Hong Kong is a first reception centre only.
Therefore, the only criticism I have of the compulsory resettlement programme is the way in which the status of the refugees is in fact investigated and determined. First of all, apparently, the Vietnamese have no right to any legal representation, then how many, if any, of the people who make up these special Tribunal panels which ultimately decide on such status, have any real experience, either of present-day Vietnam or even of the camps in Hong Kong. I was, for instance, most surprised to learn over the radio of one family being excluded under circumstances which to me would indicate that they are clearly refugees. In other words, I do, with regret, favour a tough policy for those found to be non-refugee status, including compulsory return. However, I am not satisfied at present with the organization for determining their status or even the suitability of some of the personnel of the tribunals. Tribunals which, in effect, have a family's whole future in their hands.
I now want to say something about the income of this Council.
(3) Finance
The Council has recorded a surplus in each of the previous three financial years. However, I regret to say that from hereon deficits of an increasing amount will be recorded each year unless additional revenue can be made available. The almost classical and main source of revenue is from the rates. Nevertheless, there is no logical reason why this Council should have to go to the public for an increase in the rates when we do not yet receive the full share of the urban area rates, i.e., the Government's share. We ONLY receive 34% of the urban area rate of 6%, whereas our counterpart, as you, Mr. Chairman, said, the Regional Council, receives the full share of the rates, i.e., 6%. Also, in accordance with the Memorandum of Administrative Arrangements between the Government and the Urban Council of 1973, there are a number of important and major capital and (later) switch-finance projects, for which responsibility for financing rests with the Government. However, because of the Government's own priorities in carrying out its own capital works programme, the Council has been forced itself to fund such projects, the Museum of Science and Technology is only one of several examples.
Of course, should the Government be prepared to give the Council the full Urban rate, i.e., all the rates, we would be happy to consider taking over responsibility for the funding of all these remaining projects. As it is, the Council MUST set priorities for capital works when drawing up its rolling forward 5-year capital works programme. That is both in funding the costs of erecting the same and in view of the associated ever-increasing recurrent costs arising from the commissioning of such projects.
Further, when the revaluation of the rateable values takes place, the Government must ensure, not only that the future 'status quo' of the Council is maintained with regard to revenue from rates, but also that we do ultimately achieve equality with the Regional Council on the proportion given to us from such rates. Moreover, in view of the Council's ever-increasing, heavy financial commitments arising from the requirement to provide the many services and activities expected by, amongst others, the urban area ratepayer himself, we must continue to maintain reserves at a minimum level of 3 months' expenditure.
The Council's secondary sources of revenue must also keep pace, at least, with inflation. As the Council's activities and services are in the main labour-intensive, fee levels should generally reflect the true costs of providing such services and activities. On the other hand, we, the Urban Council, must meet our commitments to the Licensees and Tenants who provide most of these secondary sources of revenue. For example, I, for one, had been very disturbed by our apparent inability to cooperate meaningfully with some of our market tenants, who seem to have unlicensed hawkers selling goods almost at the markets' very entrances. However, we happily take the advice from the Rating Department, who is apparently unaware of the position on the ground, to raise the rentals, at least every three years. That type of problem must, somehow, be solved.
With these remarks, I formally support the motion.
DR. THE HONOURABLE ELSIE TU (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I'd like to begin by thanking you and my colleagues for advice and support on the Legislative Council issues in which you have given guidance during the past year. I am sure that this good cooperation will continue, and that it will be of use to both Councils.
During the past few years, public interest has been focussed on 1997 and the political issues connected with that historical year. This has to some extent
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203
Page 108 of 166
202
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
I suggest 6 from Hong Kong, 6 from Kowloon and 6 from New Territories. The voters having 6 votes each, and the first 6 persons having the top number of votes being declared to be elected to the Legislative Council. Of course, it would be better both for Hong Kong and for China to observe the same fundamentals in the way Hong Kong is governed before and after 1997, but between 1991 and 1994 I hope that some reasonable expansion of this number of 18 can be agreed upon by both parties. In the absence of such agreement, I do not myself feel bound to adopt the same attitude towards the numbers of directly elected councillors in that year 1994 as may be laid down in the Basic Law.
(2) The question of the Vietnamese refugees
There have been a lot of criticism throughout the world of compulsory return to Vietnam of people screened out from refugee status. However it must be remembered that this is because that status, by United Nations definition does NOT include economic refugees. In my opinion, now that the screening system has been accepted by almost the whole world, we must, return to Vietnam the Vietnamese people screened out from being genuine refugees, in accordance with International Law, compulsory if necessary. We cannot keep them in camps year after year with no hope of any country taking them from us, remember Hong Kong is a first reception centre only.
Therefore, the only criticism I have of the compulsory resettlement programme is the way in which status of the refugees is in fact investigated and determined. First of all, apparently, the Vietnamese have no right to any legal representation, then how many, if any, of the people who make up these special Tribunal panels which ultimately decide on such status, have any real experience, either of present-day Vietnam or even if the camps In Hong Kong. I was for instance most surprised to learn over the radio of one family being excluded under circumstances which to me would indicate that they are clearly refugees. In other words, I do, with regret, favour a tough policy for those found to be non refugee status, including compulsory return. However I am not satisfied at present of organization for determining their status or even the suitability of some of the personnel of the tribunals. Tribunals which in effect have a family's whole future in its hands.
I now want to say something about the income of this Council.
(3) Finance
The Council has recorded a surplus in each of the previous three financial years. However, I regret to say that from hereon deficits of an increasing amount will be recorded each year unless additional revenue can be made available. The almost classical and main source of revenue is from the rates. Nevertheless, there is no logical reason why this Council should have to go to the public for an increase in the rates when we do not yet receive the full share of the urban area rates i.e. the Government's share. We ONLY receive 34% of the urban area rate of 6%, whereas our counterpart as you, Mr. Chairman said, the Regional Council, receives the full share of the rates, i.e. 6%. Also, in
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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203
accordance with the Memorandum of Administrative Arrangements between the Government and the Urban Council of 1973, there are a number of important and major capital and (later) switch-finance projects, for which responsibility for financing rests with the Government. However, because of Government's own priorities in carrying out its own capital works programme, the Council has been forced itself to fund such projects, the Museum of Science and Technology is only one of several examples.
Of course, should the Government be prepared to give the Council the full Urban rate i.e. all the rates, we would be happy to consider taking over responsibility for the funding of all these remaining projects. As it is, the Council MUST set priorities for capital works, when drawing up its rolling forward 5-year capital works programme. That is both in funding the costs of erecting the same, and in view of the associated ever-increasing recurrent costs arising from commissioning of such projects.
Further, when the revaluation of the rateable values takes place the Government must ensure, not only that the future 'status quo' of the Council is maintained with regard to revenue from rates, but also that we do ultimately achieve equality with the Regional Council on the proportion given to us from such rates. Moreover, in view of the Council's ever-increasing, heavy financial commitments arising from the requirement to provide the many services and activities expected by, amongst others, the urban area ratepayer himself, we must continue to maintain reserves at a minimum level of 3 months' expenditure.
The Council's secondary sources of revenue must also keep pace, at least, with inflation. As the Council's activities and services are in the main labour intensive, fee levels should generally reflect the true costs of providing such services and activities. On the other hand, we, the Urban Council, must meet our commitments to the Licensees and Tenants who provide most of these secondary sources of revenue. For example, I for one had been very disturbed by our apparent inability to cooperate meaningfully with some of our market tenants, who seem to have unlicenced hawkers selling goods almost to the markets very entrances. However we happily take the advice from the Rating Department who is apparently unaware of the position on the ground, to raise the rentals, at least every three years. That type of problems must, somehow, be solved.
With these remarks, I formally support the motion.
DR. THE HONOURABLE ELSIE Tu (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I'd like to begin by thanking you and my colleagues for advice and support on the Legislative Council issues in which you have given guidance during the past year. I am sure that this good cooperation will continue, and that it will be of use to both Councils.
During the past few years, public interest has been focussed on 1997 and the political issues connected with that historical year. This has to some extent
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