1987 — Page 18

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 18 of 185

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):-The trouble is—8.30 a.m. is too early for a drink. I am glad that my learned friend is a learned friend because I really can't accept the legal principle should be different. We are concerned with health whether it is overcrowding or dirty glasses. Noise is health threatening. Therefore I hope that my learned friend will investigate this further to find out whether we do not have the power to impose conditions on the noise level in any premises which we licensed. That is the question.

MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in English):-I accept this as a question. The person who advises me that we don't have the power is behind me. My view as the Chairman of Liquor Licensing Board is different from the view as a lawyer. However, if the Environmental Protection Department urges us as the Fire Services Department or the Building and Lands Department to impose condition, I think under section C, 17 of the Dutiable Commodity (Liquor) Regulations and in view of the public interest, we may consider imposing conditions. But the move must come from the other Departments. Let us see what happen on the 27 of this month. That is why I again invite you to the meeting.

MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, Hong Kong people are very much concerned with the damage on hearing and health of the young people. The Liquor Licensing Board upon renewals of the licences should impose conditions on the noise level. I would like to know for the noise level, can we do just like what is being done in other countries i.e. if the DB level exceeds a certain level then the devices will be closed automatically?

MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in Cantonese):--Well, we can consider this on the 27. Mr. MAN Sai-cheong is invited by me to the meeting as well.

5. MR. WALTER M. SULKE asked the following question (in English):— Although we have been assured several times by the USD that they are taking special steps to enforce Hygiene Regulations for the transportation of meat, I still very often see meat transported both in Hong Kong and Kowloon in very unhygienic fashion. Could I please be told what special steps are being taken to enforce regulations, and why it is not possible to transport meat in wrappings as it is done in Europe and the United States?

MR. L. H. KWAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE FOOD HYGIENE SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):—The question, which concerns the transportation of meat, is in two parts. The first asks what special steps are being taken to enforce regulations against the unhygienic transportation of meat. The second asks why is it not possible to transport wrapped meat as is done in Europe and the United States.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 18 of 185

(a) Apart from routine inspections, blitz operations are carried out from time to time. During these intensive operations, district health staff are deployed around markets and to such establishments as meat roasting factories, fresh provision shops, etc. where meat delivery vans normally converge. The Department launched two blitz operations in May and December 1986 with 80 and 51 prosecutions taken out respectively against unhygienic transport of meat. This year's first blitz operation from 21 April 1987 to 1 May 1987 has just completed and 29 offenders have been prosecuted.

(b) It is proposed to include the subject 'Hygienic transportation of meat' in the Council's Health Education Programmes for 1988/89 to drive home the message to those in the meat trade.

(d) In the case of meat transported from the abattoirs, only vans with special permits may be used. One of the conditions of the permit specifies the hygiene construction and maintenance requirements for these vehicles. These vans are subject to regular inspection by abattoir staff.

As regards the second part of the question, it is true that in continental Europe and the United States, where meat is normally supplied in a frozen or chilled condition, carcasses are wrapped in hessian to prevent spoilage and dehydration in the course of handling, storage and long distance transportation from meat packing plants to sale outlets. However, the situation in sub-tropical Hong Kong is different. The production and distribution system at the two Council abattoirs is designed to cope with the local demand for hot quivering meat. This local feature is unique in that members of the meat trade demand that their slaughtered animals be returned to them unchilled and still warm. From slaughter to sale meat has to be kept for at most an hour or two to ensure that it is still fresh, and the present slaughter and transportation system is designed to meet this requirement. Any process that entails the wrapping of the carcasses would delay the meat production operations, and, far from improving public health, would actually cause a deterioration in standards. Carcasses leaving the abattoirs are still fresh, and warm; the surface of the meat still drips. This would soil any wrapping material provided, and any wrapper would cause a build up of heat from the carcass which would be trapped under the wrapper, and this would not only stain the carcass skin but also affect meat quality, particularly in the hot summer. The meat trade would object strongly to any proposal to wrap meat in transit from the abattoirs.

Our health advisers therefore consider that the idea of wrapping of carcasses should not be pursued. The Department is satisfied that the present system of controlling the hygiene standards of carcasses in transit from the abattoir to meat retail outlets by way of permit conditions is effective, given the need to carry hot, quivering meat. No evidence exists that primary transit of this kind is in any way a danger to health. The Department proposes, therefore, to continue...

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Page 18 of 185 1 28 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):-The trouble is—8.30 a.m. is too early for a drink. I am glad that my learned friend is a learned friend because I really can't accept the legal principle should be different. We are concerned with health whether it is overcrowding or dirty glasses. Noise is health threatening. Therefore I hope that my learned friend will investigate this further to find out whether we do not have the power to impose conditions on the noise level in any premises which we licensed. That is the question. MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in English):-I accept this as a question. The person who advises me that we don't have the power is behind me. My view as the Chairman of Liquor Licensing Board is different from the view as a lawyer. However, if the Environmental Protection Department urges us as the Fire Services Department or the Building and Lands Department to impose condition, I think under section C, 17 of the Dutiable Commodity (Liquor) Regulations and in view of the public interest, we may consider imposing conditions. But the move must come from the other Departments. Let us see what happen on the 27 of this month. That is why I again invite you to the meeting. MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, Hong Kong people are very much concerned with the damage on hearing and health of the young people. The Liquor Licensing Board upon renewals of the licences should impose conditions on the noise level. I would like to know for the noise level, can we do just like what is being done in other countries i.e. if the DB level exceeds a certain level then the devices will be closed automatically? MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in Cantonese):--Well, we can consider this on the 27. Mr. MAN Sai-cheong is invited by me to the meeting as well. 5. MR. WALTER M. SULKE asked the following question (in English):— Although we have been assured several times by the USD that they are taking special steps to enforce Hygiene Regulations for the transportation of meat, I still very often see meat transported both in Hong Kong and Kowloon in very unhygienic fashion. Could I please be told what special steps are being taken to enforce regulations, and why it is not possible to transport meat in wrappings as it is done in Europe and the United States? MR. L. H. KWAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE FOOD HYGIENE SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):—The question, which concerns the transportation of meat, is in two parts. The first asks what special steps are being taken to enforce regulations against the unhygienic transportation of meat. The second asks why is it not possible to transport wrapped meat as is done in Europe and the United States. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 18 of 185 29 (a) Apart from routine inspections, blitz operations are carried out from time to time. During these intensive operations, district health staff are deployed around markets and to such establishments as meat roasting factories, fresh provision shops, etc. where meat delivery vans normally converge. The Department launched two blitz operations in May and December 1986 with 80 and 51 prosecutions taken out respectively against unhygienic transport of meat. This year's first blitz operation from 21 April 1987 to 1 May 1987 has just completed and 29 offenders have been prosecuted. (b) It is proposed to include the subject 'Hygienic transportation of meat' in the Council's Health Education Programmes for 1988/89 to drive home the message to those in the meat trade. (c) From time to time, the Department issues advisory letters to all licensees in the meat trade warning them to ensure that all open food, including meat in transport, must be properly protected against contamination. (d) In the case of meat transported from the abattoirs, only vans with special permits may be used. One of the conditions of the permit specifies the hygiene construction and maintenance requirements for these vehicles. These vans are subject to regular inspection by abattoir staff. As regards the second part of the question, it is true that in continental Europe and the United States, where meat is normally supplied in a frozen or chilled condition, carcasses are wrapped in hessian to prevent spoilage and dehydration in the course of handling, storage and long distance transportation from meat packing plants to sale outlets. However, the situation in sub-tropical Hong Kong is different. The production and distribution system at the two Council abattoirs is designed to cope with the local demand for hot quivering meat. This local feature is unique in that members of the meat trade demand that their slaughtered animals be returned to them unchilled and still warm. From slaughter to sale meat has to be kept for at most an hour or two to ensure that it is still fresh, and the present slaughter and transportation system is designed to meet this requirement. Any process that entails the wrapping of the carcasses would delay the meat production operations, and, far from improving public health, would actually cause a deterioration in standards. Carcasses leaving the abattoirs are still fresh, and warm; the surface of the meat still drips. This would soil any wrapping material provided, and any wrapper would cause a build up of heat from the carcass which would be trapped under the wrapper, and this would not only stain the carcass skin but also affect meat quality, particularly in the hot summer. The meat trade would object strongly to any proposal to wrap meat in transit from the abattoirs. Our health advisers therefore consider that the idea of wrapping of carcasses should not be pursued. The Department is satisfied that the present system of controlling the hygiene standards of carcasses in transit from the abattoir to meat retail outlets by way of permit conditions is effective, given the need to carry hot, quivering meat. No evidence exists that primary transit of this kind is in any way a danger to health. The Department proposes, therefore, to continue... Page 18 of 185

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Page 18 of 185 1 28 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):-The trouble is—8.30 a.m. is too early for a drink. I am glad that my learned friend is a learned friend because I really can't accept the legal principle should be different. We are concerned with health whether it is overcrowding or dirty glasses. Noise is health threatening. Therefore I hope that my learned friend will investigate this further to find out whether we do not have the power to impose conditions on the noise level in any premises which we licensed. That is the question. MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in English):-I accept this as a question. The person who advises me that we don't have the power is behind me. My view as the Chairman of Liquor Licensing Board is different from the view as a lawyer. However, if the Environmental Protection Department urges us as the Fire Services Department or the Building and Lands Department to impose condition, I think under section C, 17 of the Dutiable Commodity (Liquor) Regulations and in view of the public interest, we may consider imposing conditions. But the move must come from the other Departments. Let us see what happen on the 27 of this month. That is why I again invite you to the meeting. MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, Hong Kong people are very much concerned with the damage on hearing and health of the young people. The Liquor Licensing Board upon renewals of the licences should impose conditions on the noise level. I would like to know for the noise level, can we do just like what is being done in other countries i.e. if the DB level exceeds a certain level then the devices will be closed automatically? MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in Cantonese):--Well, we can consider this on the 27. Mr. MAN Sai-cheong is invited by me to the meeting as well. 5. MR. WALTER M. SULKE asked the following question (in English):— Although we have been assured several times by the USD that they are taking special steps to enforce Hygiene Regulations for the transportation of meat, I still very often see meat transported both in Hong Kong and Kowloon in very unhygienic fashion. Could I please be told what special steps are being taken to enforce regulations, and why it is not possible to transport meat in wrappings as it is done in Europe and the United States? MR. L. H. KWAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE FOOD HYGIENE SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):—The question, which concerns the transportation of meat, is in two parts. The first asks what special steps are being taken to enforce regulations against the unhygienic transportation of meat. The second asks why is it not possible to transport wrapped meat as is done in Europe and the United States. As to the first part of the question, the Department is well aware of the problem and has been taking the following special measures to tackle it:-- HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 18 of 185 29 (a) Apart from routine inspections, blitz operations are carried out from time to time. During these intensive operations, district health staff are deployed around markets and to such establishments as meat roasting factories, fresh provision shops, etc. where meat delivery vans normally converge. The Department launched two blitz operations in May and December 1986 with 80 and 51 prosecutions taken out respectively against unhygienic transport of meat. This year's first blitz operation from 21 April 1987 to 1 May 1987 has just completed and 29 offenders have been prosecuted. (b) It is proposed to include the subject 'Hygienic transportation of meat' in the Council's Health Education Programmes for 1988/89 to drive home the message to those in the meat trade. (c) From time to time, the Department issues advisory letters to all licensees in the meat trade warning them to ensure that all open food, including meat in transport, must be properly protected against contamination. (d) In the case of meat transported from the abattoirs, only vans with special permits may be used. One of the conditions of the permit specifies the hygiene construction and maintenance requirements for these vehicles. These vans are subject to regular inspection by abattoir staff. As regards the second part of the question, it is ture that in continental Europe and the United States, where meat is normally supplied in a frozen or chilled condition, carcasses are wrapped in hessian to prevent spoilage and dehydration in the course of handling, storage and long distance transportation from meat packing plants to sale outlets. However, the situation in sub-tropical Hong Kong is different. The production and distribution system at the two Council abattoirs is designed to cope with the local demand for hot quivering meat. This local feature is unique in that members of the meat trade demand that their slaughtered animals be returned to them unchilled and still warm. From slaughter to sale meat has to be kept for at most an hour or two to ensure that it is still fresh, and the present slaughter and transportation system is designed to meet this requirement. Any process that entails the wrapping of the carcasses would delay the meat production operations, and, far from improving public health, would actually cause a deterioration in standards. Carcasses leaving the abattoirs are still fresh, and warm; the surface of the meat still drips. This would soil any wrapping material provided, and any wrapper would cause a build up of heat from the carcass which would be trapped under the wrapper, and this would not only stain the carcass skin but also affect meat quality, particularly in the hot summer. The meat trade would object strongly to any proposal to wrap meat in transit from the abattoirs. Our health advisers therefore consider that the idea of wrapping of carcasses should not be pursued. The Department is satisfied that the present system of controlling the hygiene standards of carcasses in transit from the abattoir to meat retail outlets by way of permit conditions is effective, given the need to carry hot, quivering meat. No evidence exists that primary transit of this kind is in any way a danger to health. The Department proposes, therefore, to continue

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Page 18 of 185

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. PETER C. K. CHAN (in Cantonese):--Well, we can consider this on the 27. Mr. MAN Sai-cheong is invited by me to the meeting as well.

States.

As to the first part of the question, the Department is well aware of the problem and has been taking the following special measures to tackle it:--

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 18 of 185

(b) It is proposed to include the subject 'Hygienic transportation of meat' in the Council's Health Education Programmes for 1988/89 to drive home the message to those in the meat trade.

(c) From time to time, the Department issues advisory letters to all licensees in the meat trade warning them to ensure that all open food, including meat in transport, must be properly protected against contamination. (d) In the case of meat transported from the abattoirs, only vans with special permits may be used. One of the conditions of the permit specifies the hygiene construction and maintenance requirements for these vehicles. These vans are subject to regular inspection by abattoir staff.

As regards the second part of the question, it is ture that in continental Europe and the United States, where meat is normally supplied in a frozen or chilled condition, carcasses are wrapped in hessian to prevent spoilage and dehydration in the course of handling, storage and long distance transportation from meat packing plants to sale outlets. However, the situation in sub-tropical Hong Kong is different. The production and distribution system at the two Council abattoirs is designed to cope with the local demand for hot quivering meat. This local feature is unique in that members of the meat trade demand that their slaughtered animals be returned to them unchilled and still warm. From slaughter to sale meat has to be kept for at most an hour or two to ensure that it is still fresh, and the present slaughter and transportation system is designed to meet this requirement. Any process that entails the wrapping of the carcasses would delay the meat production operations, and, far from improving public health, would actually cause a deterioration in standards. Carcasses leaving the abattoirs are still fresh, and warm; the surface of the meat still drips. This would soil any wrapping material provided, and any wrapper would cause a build up of heat from the carcass which would be trapped under the wrapper, and this would not only stain the carcass skin but also affect meat quality, particularly in the hot summer. The meat trade would object strongly to any proposal to wrap meat in transit from the abattoirs.

1987 — Page 18

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