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# HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
## ADDRESS BY CHAIRMAN
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Ladies and Gentlemen, the meeting is called to order.
## MINUTES
The minutes of the meetings held on 12 and 14 January 1988, were confirmed.
## PAPER
The following paper was laid on the table:
(1) Reports to the Urban Council by the Director of Urban Services and Secretary, Urban Council, for the month of January 1988.
## QUESTIONS
1. MR. WALTER M. SULKE asked the following question (in English):—I often receive criticism of the general state of Edinburgh Place especially as regards paving, trees, etc., and to my surprise when I ask the USD to please do something about this I was told that Edinburgh Place, which was integrally designed together with the City Hall and is a part of the City Hall complex, does not come under the jurisdiction of the Urban Council but is looked after, or as in this case, not looked after, by the Central Government. Surely this is quite wrong and Edinburgh Place should be made what it was designed for, namely, part of the City Hall complex and come under the control of this Council. Could I ask why it is not under our control and what can be done in order to change the present position?
MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG, VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE CULTURE Select Committee, replied as follows (in English):-The question asks why the Edinburgh Place is not under the control of this Council and what can be done to change the present position.
While Edinburgh Place might have been designed to harmonize with the City Hall frontage for compatibility of setting, it is Crown Land and has never been allocated as part of the City Hall complex. It is at present under the management of the Buildings and Lands Department which consults, inter alia, the Secretary of the Urban Council and the Manager of the City Hall on requests for the use of it for various purposes such as civic and ceremonial functions and on repair work for essential services.
The suggestion of the Council taking over the management of Edinburgh Place was mooted in 1977 and 1981 but was turned down by the Government on both occasions. The Government indicated in 1981 that Edinburgh Place should remain as Crown Land because Queen's Pier is the traditional point for ceremonial arrivals and departures in Hong Kong and Government did not wish to pass on its overall control to the Council. As far as we are aware, the Government's stand remains the same.
Apart from protocol considerations, there would also be substantial administrative problems if Edinburgh Place were to be put under the management of the Council. There are a number of underground services beneath Edinburgh Place, including pumphouses, sea-water pipes for air-conditioning plants and electricity cables. Such services cater to Government buildings as well as private buildings in the Central area and require regular maintenance. Very often private developers have to seek approval from Government to carry out installation or repair works in the area. Without the necessary resources, it would be very difficult for the Council to process such applications and to ensure that resurfacing and re-instatement works were carried out satisfactorily. Moreover, Edinburgh Place now serves as the only vehicular access by the public to both Queen's Pier and the main entrance of the City Hall. The Council is not the appropriate authority for traffic management.
In view of these considerations, it is best for the Edinburgh Place to stay under the control and management of the Government.
As regards the general state of Edinburgh Place, the Council can through the Department liaise closely with government departments concerned and press them to exercise tighter control and better management.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, the answer sounds if it was drafted by the people who write 'Yes minister'. In view of this very far from satisfactory answer, what can my friend suggest that we do to improve the shocking state of the plaza which detracts from the image of the City Hall and the image of this Council?
MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG (in English):—I realize that the situation at present is not entirely satisfactory owing to historical reasons and the various departments concerned area of jurisdiction. I think that the question can serve as a very good example for further planning, say, in the new Cultural Complex which we may have to face the same problems. We will try to take all the criticisms into account and will be ironed out and discussed by the Administration Select Committee in future.
2. MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN asked the following question (in Cantonese):-May I know what the precautionary measures are to protect the safety of users of the Urban Council sports grounds? Are these measures considered adequate and if not are there any plans for improvement?
MR. SAMUEL P. W. WONG, Chairman of the Recreation Select Committee, replied as follows (in Cantonese): This question concerns safety at Urban
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
ADDRESS BY CHAIRMAN
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Ladies and Gentlemen, the meeting is called to order.
MINUTES
The minutes of the meetings held on 12 and 14 January 1988, were confirmed.
PAPER
The following paper was laid on the table:
(1) Reports to the Urban Council by the Director of Urban Services and
Secretary, Urban Council, for the month of January 1988.
QUESTIONS
1. MR. WALTER M. SULKE asked the following question (in English):—I often receive criticism of the general state of Edinburgh Place especially as regards paving, trees, etc., and to my surprise when I ask the USD to please do something about this I was told that Edinburgh Place, which was integrally designed together with the City Hall and is a part of the City Hall complex, does not come under the jurisdiction of the Urban Council but is looked after, or as in this case, not looked after, by the Central Government. Surely this is quite wrong and Edinburgh Place should be made what it was designed for, namely, part of the City Hall complex and come under the control of this Council. Could I ask why it is not under our control and what can be done in order to change the present position?
MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG, VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE CULTURE Select CommITTEE, replied as follows (in English):-The question asks why the Edinburgh Place is not under the control of this Council and what can be done to change the present position.
While Edinburgh Place might have been designed to harmonize with the City Hall frontage for compatibility of setting, it is Crown Land and has never been allocated as part of the City Hall complex. It is at present under the manage- ment of the Buildings and Lands Department which consults, inter alia, the Secretary of the Urban Council and the Manager of the City Hall on requests for the use of it for various purposes such as civic and ceremonial functions and on repair work for essential services.
The suggestion of the Council taking over the management of Edinburgh Place was mooted in 1977 and 1981 but was turned down by the Government on both occasions. The Government indicated in 1981 that Edinburgh Place
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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should remain as Crown Land because Queen's Pier is the traditional point for ceremonial arrivals and departures in Hong Kong and Government did not wish to pass on its overall control to the Council. As far as we are aware, the Government's stand remains the same.
Apart from protocol considerations, there would also be substantial admi- nistrative problems if Edinburgh Place were to be put under the management of the Council. There are a number of underground services beneath Edinburgh Place, including pumphouses, sea-water pipes for air-conditioning plants and electricity cables. Such services cater to Government buildings as well as private buildings in the Central area and require regular maintenance. Very often private developers have to seek approval from Government to carry out installation or repair works in the area. Without the necessary resources, it would be very difficult for the Council to process such applications and to ensure that resurfacing and re-instatement works were carried out satisfactorily. Moreover, Edinburgh Place now serves as the only vehicular access by the public to both Queen's Pier and the main entrance of the City Hall. The Council is not the appropriate authority for traffic management.
In view of these considerations, it is best for the Edinburgh Place to stay under the control and management of the Government.
As regards the general state of Edinburgh Place, the Council can through the Department liaise closely with government departments concerned and press them to exercise tighter control and better management.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, the answer sounds if it was drafted by the people who write 'Yes minister'. In view of this very far from satisfactory answer, what can my friend suggest that we do to improve the shocking state of the plaza which detracts from the image of the City Hall and the image of this Council?
MR. MAN SAI-CHEONG (in English):—I realize that the situation at present is not entirely satisfactory owing to historical reasons and the various departments concerned area of jurisdiction. I think that the question can serve as a very good example for further planning, say, in the new Cultural Complex which we may have to face the same problems. We will try to take all the criticisms into account and will be ironed out and discussed by the Administration Select Committee in future.
2. MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN asked the following question (in Cantonese):-May I know what the precautionary measures are to protect the safety of users of the Urban Council sports grounds? Are these measures considered adequate and if not are there any plans for improvement?
MR. SAMUEL P. W. WONG, Chairman of the Recreation Select Committee, replied as follows (in Cantonese): This question concerns safety at Urban
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