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There are no hard and fast rules on alienation of Urban Council's facilities. Each case is considered on its own merits, taking into account the overall interest of the public, the effect of the alienation on the facilities, the suitability of the compensatory land grant, if any, and the period of the alienation. If the Council is satisfied that the alienation is justified, then the request is allowed.

No statistics are kept on the alienation of Urban Council land or compensatory land received in return. Nor do I think it would be very meaningful to keep such statistics. This would incur a very considerable amount of time and research and would therefore be a costly exercise.

There is no indication to suggest that requests for permanent or temporary alienation are increasing.

Any alienation that involves the felling of trees or the loss of greenery is examined most carefully by the Recreation Select Committee to ensure that as few trees as possible are lost. Where possible, transplanting of the trees or reprovision of the greenery is required as a condition for the alienation. The effect of such alienation has on keeping Hong Kong Green is therefore kept to a minimum.

The present procedures for the alienation of the Urban Council's facilities are satisfactory. Requests for land alienation are always submitted to and considered by the Recreation Select Committee and I can assure Mrs. Li we are no 'rubber stamp' as her question seems to imply.

MRS. MARGARET LI (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask through you, Mr. Lo, has there been any case or any request for alienation of Urban Council's facilities which has been turned down in the past year?

MR. KENNETH Lo (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I cannot recall whether there has been any turn down in the last year. But certainly, very recently there has been at least one case that I can bring to mind, and that concerns the Zoological and Botanical Garden over the years, there were bits of it joining the roadways around had been alienated, then there was a further request for further alienation to widen Garden Road, we objected to this, the alienation was not granted and there was no further widening.

MRS. MARGARET LI (in English):—Mr. Chairman, as I recall each case requesting for approval for alienation suitability outlines the area of land to be compensated to the Council, I, therefore, request or ask the Recreation Select Committee if it would consider accumulating such statistics, so when members considering each case they would bear in mind the total picture.

MR. KENNETH Lo (in English): Mr. Chairman, each case usually comprises only a few square metres of land, so that there will not at all be meaningful to ask for compensatory land for that one particular alienation. Of course, when

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they are lumped all together, it could amount to a very sizeable area. But when the piece of land comes up for allocation, we will have to look at the total amount of open space for that district, and in that way it is taken care of.

MRS. MARGARET LI (in English):---Mr. Chairman, I cannot see why no statistics are kept on the alienation of Urban Council land or compensatory land received in return, are we in a position to reply, there is no indication of either an increase or decrease of requisition for alienation? Is there any evidence to substantiate the claim that there is no indication that such requests are not on the increase?

MR. KENNETH Lo (in English):-Well, it is purely subjective, I just have to go on memory, perhaps it is ups and downs. When some roadways have to be widened, pedestrian subways or elevated footpaths have to be built, or some public utilities need somewhere to put in facilities, then it comes back to us. Whether it is going to increase or decrease in the future, is anyone to guess.

MR. TONG KAM-BIU (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question, for example, in certain districts when we alienate a piece of Urban Council land, somebody may feel that this would affect the residents adversely, of course, we will consider all the facts, but after consideration will we try to consult the residents to see if they agree to this? Will we consult them first before we decide on the alienation, did we do this in the past or we will do this in future?

MR. KENNETH LO (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I think many cases will not be meaningful to ask the residents of that particular district because the alienation in vast majority cases are very small, only a few square metres. For instance, I think last month we approved a small permanent alienation to allow pedestrian subway to be built at the Jordan Road Ferry Concourse, now if you go on a big survey to ask the residents what they think of it, it is really a waste of time because the land area concerned is very small indeed.

Mr. Tong Kam-BIU (in Cantonese):—Yes, Mr. Chairman, I would like to go on. Because I am very concerned about cases which might come up in the future. There may be foreign investment companies which will ask for land allocated for carparks or our lands in the parks and gardens. They may have vast investments and they may be asking for larger pieces of land, and if we agree to the alienation before consultation, will this affect the image of the Urban Council adversely because this may invite objection.

MR. KENNETH Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, what I have said, of course, applies to small alienation, where there is a big underground carpark, we are asked to give up a big playground, the whole of a big playground or something like that, then in that case I will suggest it is proper to pass the matter to the district boards for their comments and advice in the same way that we do for big projects which affects that particular district.