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on an equal footing as other members of the community. The recent decision is the result of treating the application on an equal basis, so what we are really trying to consider is whether we should give them special consideration on this occasion. In fact, tendering for a coffee shop is a sort of commercial enterprise and I think their application should be treated on an equal footing.
MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I beg to disagree that the deaf should be treated by Social Welfare Department and as Mr. YOUNG said, they should be given equal chances. Well, they don't have equal chances in the first place, they are handicapped. I would like to ask Mr. Young if he will refer this matter to the Whole Council so that we can have a thorough discussion on it and see whether we can just help the deaf to be equal with other people?
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Regarding assisting the deaf, I think any member of the Council can raise it. But of course, in doing that we have to review the whole policy. It will not be just confined to the deaf but to all the handicapped as well.
MR. FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, could I ask Mr. Young the following question. Of course, the Urban Council has been helping the handicapped in the service provided and we have also employed them as our staff and this is one of the ways, and another way is to provide them with trading places. Apart from that, do we have any other special scheme to assist them? I was told that any profit made in the coffee shop would not be pocketed by the managerial people, but that the money would be used by the Society for the Deaf in promoting activities to the deaf. So, in that sense, it is not altogether a commercial enterprise. If that is the case, and if it is possible for the Council to help these handicapped, then perhaps they should be given special consideration.
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I have just mentioned that the Urban Council has in fact done a lot to help the handicapped. But of course, we have to consider to what extent we offer our help, and which is the most effective way. The Recreation Select Committee does not consider the bidding only in the light of a commercial enterprise. In fact, in this commercial world, we cannot guarantee that you will make profit in your business. So in order to be fair, among the 10 tenders that we have received, the licence should go to the highest bidder, and this is the normal procedure. Of course, in this particular case, we realize that there is a need for a coffee shop. What we also have to consider is the level of service provided by the operator, and not just the profit made.
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I agree with what Mr. YOUNG said. If we are going to agree with such a tendering procedure, we may have to amend the whole procedure. So I will second what Mrs. ELLIOTT has said, i.e. to put the matter to the Standing Committee for further discussion.
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MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I understand that for any motion to be proposed or seconded, other members should be given prior notification. Of course, as I have just mentioned, any member can raise the matter in any select committee.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—I would take this as a supplementary question.
MR. CHAN CHI-KWAN (in Cantonese):—Since it concerns the procedure, and the Chairman of the Recreation Select Committee is not here, perhaps Mr. YOUNG as Vice-Chairman of the Select Committee would agree that this matter be put to the Standing Committee meeting on 30 September for further discussion. If the matter is raised at that time, I will support.
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I understand that there is no Standing Committee meeting on 30 September. The tender will be submitted to the Finance Select Committee for consideration. As I am not a member of that Committee, so it is impossible for me to raise this matter at that meeting.
MR. CHAN CHI-KWAN (in English):—I am asking for clarification. You stated that the tender will be submitted to the Finance Select Committee for consideration at the meeting on 30 September 1983, and without pre-empting the decision of that Committee it seems most unlikely that the tender will be accepted. What I am asking is that whatever the situation, whether it is the Tender Board or the Recreation Select Committee, the matter can always be brought to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council I am now serving. The secretary should notice that this would be brought to there. If necessary, Mr. Chairman, you can take a vote.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—I think you are supposed to ask a supplementary.
MR. CHAN CHI-KWAN (in English):—No, this is a part of order.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—I am sorry. But you are asking a supplementary.
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, unless my interpretation of Cantonese is terribly wrong, I understand that Mr. CHAN just now suggested that the matter be raised at the Standing Committee on 30 September. However, there is no such meeting on that day. I believe that anyone who is a member of the Finance Select Committee is free to express his view during the meeting. Unfortunately, I am not a member of that meeting, so I cannot do that.
MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, is it not correct that any member has the right to refer a matter to the Standing Committee regardless of any motion in this meeting, and incidentally, there is a meeting on 27 September in my diary and it hasn't been cancelled.
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on an equal footing as other members of the community. The recent decision is the result of treating the application on an equal basis, so what we are really trying to consider is whether we should give them special consideration on this occasion. In fact, tendering for a coffee shop is a sort of commercial enterprise and I think their application should be treated on an equal footing.
MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I beg to disagree that the deaf should be treated by Social Welfare Department and as Mr. YOUNG said, they should be given equal chances. Well, they don't have equal chances in the first place, they are handicapped. I would like to ask Mr. Young if he will refer this matter to the Whole Council so that we can have a thorough discussion on it and see whether we can just help the deaf to be equal with other people?
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):-Regarding assisting the deaf, I think any member of the Council can raise it. But of course, in doing that we have to review the whole policy. It will not be just confined to the deaf but to all the handicapped as well.
MR. FREDERICK FUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, could I ask Mr. Young the following question. Of course, the Urban Council has been helping the handicapped in the service provided and we have also employed them as our staff and this is one of the ways, and another way is to provide them with trading places. Apart from that, do we have any other special scheme to assist them? I was told that any profit made in the coffee shop would not be pocketed by the managerial people, but that the money would be used by the Society for the Deaf in promoting activities to the deaf. So, in that sense, it is not altogether a commercial enterprise. If that is the case, and if it is possible for the Council to help these handicapped, then perhaps they should be given special consideration.
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I have just mentioned that the Urban Council has in fact done a lot to help the handicapped. But of course, we have to consider to what extent we offer our help, and which is the most effective way. The Recreation Select Committee does not consider the bidding only in the light of a commercial enterprise. In fact, in this commercial world, we cannot guarantee that you will make profit in your business. So in order to be fair, among the 10 tenders that we have received, the licence should go to the highest bidder, and this is the normal procedure. Of course, in this particular case, we realize that there is a need for a coffee shop. What we also have to consider is the level of service provided by the operator, and not just the profit made.
MR. PAO PING-WING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I agree with what Mr. YOUNG said. If we are going to agree with such a tendering procedure, we may have to amend the whole procedure. So I will second what Mrs. ELLIOTT has said, i.e. to put the matter to the Standing Committee for further discussion.
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MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I understand that for any motion to be proposed or seconded, other members should be given prior notification. Of course, as I have just mentioned, any member can raise the matter in any select committee.
CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—I would take this as a supplementary question.
MR. CHAN CHI-KWAN (in Cantonese):--Since it concerns the procedure, and the Chairman of the Recreation Select Committee is not here, perhaps Mr. YOUNG as Vice-Chairman of the Select Committee would agree that this matter be put to the Standing Committee meeting on 30 September for further discussion. If the matter is raised at that time, I will support.
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in Cantonese):--Mr. Chairman, I understand that there is no Standing Committee meeting on 30 September. The tender will be submitted to the Finance Select Committee for consideration. As I am not a member of that Committee, so it is impossible for me to raise this matter at that meeting.
MR. CHAN CHI-KWAN (in English):—I am asking for clarification. You stated that the tender will be submitted to the Finance Select Committee for consideration at the meeting on 30 September 1983, and without pre-empting the decision of that Committee it seems most unlikely that the tender will be accepted. What I am asking is that whatever the situation, whether it is the Tender Board or the Recreation Select Committee, the matter can always be brought to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council I am now serving. The secretary should notice that this would be brought to there. If necessary, Mr. Chairman, you can take a vote.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—I think you are supposed to ask a supplementary.
MR. CHAN CHI-KWAN (in English):-No, this is a part of order.
CHAIRMAN (in English):----I am sorry. But you are asking a supplementary.
MR. HOWARD YOUNG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, unless my interpretation of Cantonese is terribly wrong, I understand that Mr. CHAN just now suggested that the matter be raised at the Standing Committee on 30 September. However, there is no such meeting on that day. I believe that anyone who is a member of the Finance Select Committee is free to express his view during the meeting. Unfortunately, I am not a member of that meeting, so I cannot do that.
MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, is it not correct that any member has the right to refer a matter to the Standing Committee regardless of any motion in this meeting, and incidentally, there is a meeting on 27 September in my diary and it hasn't been cancelled.
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