1981 — Page 60

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

try to maximize the use of the ground. I think all the people of Hong Kong should be able to use the ground.

MR. LO (in English):—Mr. Chairman, in as far as what Mr. CHOI has said about the question, I would attempt to answer it, but I'm not sure in fact, that is a question or not, except it suggested that we should consider allowing the ground to be used by the general public. I have already stated in my reply that the Council would consider this to be wrong, the wrong usage of this particular facilities. The figure for 1981, I suspect to be 56.2 per cent of the total amount of time available. Now, Mr. CHOI in his statement or question has worked out the number of hours available as 365 days a year and 24 hours a day. That's a little unrealistic, because we cannot expect the sports ground to be used 24 hours a day, every day of the year. Having regard to the number of hours that would be expected it to be used in the day, when we say it has been fully used, which is, I would say, be 6 or 8 hours a day, and that would be the maximum usage. Then, we come to the figure of about 4 000 odd hours a year, perhaps is the maximum, and this year it was used for 2 000 hours, so I think that's a fairly high rate of usage. In addition, of course, the Council will keep an eye to a constant review and will do what we can to increase the usage slightly further. But I must say, I hold out very little hope of its being used by the general public, as in when they wish to use it.

MR. YOUNG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I remember about a year ago, I asked a similar question. From the figures I have here, the figures for 1979 to 1981, I believe the increase is great and sometimes the percentage of using the ground is more than 90 per cent. But of course, the ground was mainly used for competition purposes and very few spectators were there. So, perhaps the general public have the wrong impression, in passing by the ground, seeing very few spectators and feeling that the ground was unused.

MR. Lo (in English):—That's very possible. In fact, there may be event going on in the Wan Chai Sports Ground with 100 participants, but not many spectators, when somebody is driving and passing by there in a car, taking a casual look, may not realize that there is actually something going on.

MR. HU (in English):—Mr. Chairman, can Mr. LO outline the underlying principle in limiting the usage of this particular sports ground. It is because over usage may affect the quality of the track?

MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I think the point is this, if it is used by people or organizations who are experienced in athletics, then there will be little danger of damage. That's why we limit use to responsible organizations and for the Education Department, schools in the upper levels of the school competition. These would be expected to be more experienced in organizing athletes and usage by those organizations should not result in damage. But for those less experienced who might just want to play around in the facilities and damage could be caused. I think that will be the principle we work on.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 60 of 146

79

MR. CHOI (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, thank you Mr. Lo for his reply. I think we have spent a lot of money on the ground and the ground is being subsidized by all the tax-payers of Hong Kong and I believe they should have a right to use the ground. So, I hope we should not limit the use of the ground to the 5 organizations mentioned in Mr. Lo's reply. I hope that all the registered and qualified associations should be able to use the ground.

MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I'm afraid I will have to come to a disagreement with my friend, Mr. CHOI, that I don't think we can say, anyone who pays rates is entitled to make use of that particular sports ground. But as I've said, we shall certainly do what we can to increase the usage.

MR. FRANCIS CHAINE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, the policy is that it should be limited to 5 groups. The 5th group is specific groups approved by the Urban Council. Now, I want to know the underlying facts, why should it be 5 groups only and why association or individual association should not be considered from case to case, because it says that they are refused as a matter of policy, another words any association if they are going to apply for the use of the ground, will they automatically be refused?

MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, this is an attempt to ensure that the organization using the ground is a responsible experienced body. That's why we limit to these particular categories.

MR. C. K. CHAN (in English):—Mr. Chairman, it seems that the opening is under the 5 specific groups approved by the Urban Council, can we be enlightened either here or in the select committee, the criteria under which specific groups would be approved. Such as, the requirements and how experienced would the group be required, to be approved by the Council and to be able to use the ground. Is there any criteria or any standard?

MR. Lo (in English):—As I have said, it would be those we think would be responsible and experienced organizations. This list of specific groups of course can be added to from time to time where justified.

5. MR. AMBROSE K. C. CHOI asked the following question (in Cantonese):—I have come to know that the population of Kwun Tong is more than six hundred thousand, but the indoor, outdoor stadia and swimming pools provided for this district are far less than the demand. When will the said facilities be sufficiently provided for Kwun Tong?

MR. KENNETH T. C. LO, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):—This question concerns the provision of indoor and outdoor stadia and swimming pools in the Kwun Tong urban district.

Dealing first with Indoor Games Halls, I am happy to report that one has recently been completed in the new Ngau Tau Kok Market complex. This will be opened to the public shortly. There are another three games halls under planning. A games hall at Hiu Kwong Street Playground is scheduled for

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Page 60 of 146 1 78 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL try to maximize the use of the ground. I think all the people of Hong Kong should be able to use the ground. MR. LO (in English):—Mr. Chairman, in as far as what Mr. CHOI has said about the question, I would attempt to answer it, but I'm not sure in fact, that is a question or not, except it suggested that we should consider allowing the ground to be used by the general public. I have already stated in my reply that the Council would consider this to be wrong, the wrong usage of this particular facilities. The figure for 1981, I suspect to be 56.2 per cent of the total amount of time available. Now, Mr. CHOI in his statement or question has worked out the number of hours available as 365 days a year and 24 hours a day. That's a little unrealistic, because we cannot expect the sports ground to be used 24 hours a day, every day of the year. Having regard to the number of hours that would be expected it to be used in the day, when we say it has been fully used, which is, I would say, be 6 or 8 hours a day, and that would be the maximum usage. Then, we come to the figure of about 4 000 odd hours a year, perhaps is the maximum, and this year it was used for 2 000 hours, so I think that's a fairly high rate of usage. In addition, of course, the Council will keep an eye to a constant review and will do what we can to increase the usage slightly further. But I must say, I hold out very little hope of its being used by the general public, as in when they wish to use it. MR. YOUNG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I remember about a year ago, I asked a similar question. From the figures I have here, the figures for 1979 to 1981, I believe the increase is great and sometimes the percentage of using the ground is more than 90 per cent. But of course, the ground was mainly used for competition purposes and very few spectators were there. So, perhaps the general public have the wrong impression, in passing by the ground, seeing very few spectators and feeling that the ground was unused. MR. Lo (in English):—That's very possible. In fact, there may be event going on in the Wan Chai Sports Ground with 100 participants, but not many spectators, when somebody is driving and passing by there in a car, taking a casual look, may not realize that there is actually something going on. MR. HU (in English):—Mr. Chairman, can Mr. LO outline the underlying principle in limiting the usage of this particular sports ground. It is because over usage may affect the quality of the track? MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I think the point is this, if it is used by people or organizations who are experienced in athletics, then there will be little danger of damage. That's why we limit use to responsible organizations and for the Education Department, schools in the upper levels of the school competition. These would be expected to be more experienced in organizing athletes and usage by those organizations should not result in damage. But for those less experienced who might just want to play around in the facilities and damage could be caused. I think that will be the principle we work on. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 60 of 146 79 MR. CHOI (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, thank you Mr. Lo for his reply. I think we have spent a lot of money on the ground and the ground is being subsidized by all the tax-payers of Hong Kong and I believe they should have a right to use the ground. So, I hope we should not limit the use of the ground to the 5 organizations mentioned in Mr. Lo's reply. I hope that all the registered and qualified associations should be able to use the ground. MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I'm afraid I will have to come to a disagreement with my friend, Mr. CHOI, that I don't think we can say, anyone who pays rates is entitled to make use of that particular sports ground. But as I've said, we shall certainly do what we can to increase the usage. MR. FRANCIS CHAINE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, the policy is that it should be limited to 5 groups. The 5th group is specific groups approved by the Urban Council. Now, I want to know the underlying facts, why should it be 5 groups only and why association or individual association should not be considered from case to case, because it says that they are refused as a matter of policy, another words any association if they are going to apply for the use of the ground, will they automatically be refused? MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, this is an attempt to ensure that the organization using the ground is a responsible experienced body. That's why we limit to these particular categories. MR. C. K. CHAN (in English):—Mr. Chairman, it seems that the opening is under the 5 specific groups approved by the Urban Council, can we be enlightened either here or in the select committee, the criteria under which specific groups would be approved. Such as, the requirements and how experienced would the group be required, to be approved by the Council and to be able to use the ground. Is there any criteria or any standard? MR. Lo (in English):—As I have said, it would be those we think would be responsible and experienced organizations. This list of specific groups of course can be added to from time to time where justified. 5. MR. AMBROSE K. C. CHOI asked the following question (in Cantonese):—I have come to know that the population of Kwun Tong is more than six hundred thousand, but the indoor, outdoor stadia and swimming pools provided for this district are far less than the demand. When will the said facilities be sufficiently provided for Kwun Tong? MR. KENNETH T. C. LO, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):—This question concerns the provision of indoor and outdoor stadia and swimming pools in the Kwun Tong urban district. Dealing first with Indoor Games Halls, I am happy to report that one has recently been completed in the new Ngau Tau Kok Market complex. This will be opened to the public shortly. There are another three games halls under planning. A games hall at Hiu Kwong Street Playground is scheduled for Page 60 of 14 Page 60 Page 61 Page 61 of 146
Baseline (Original)
Page 60 of 146 1 78 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL try to maximize the use of the ground. I think all the people of Hong Kong should be able to use the ground. MR. LO (in English):—Mr. Chairman, in as far as what Mr. CHOI has said about the question, I would attempt to answer it, but I'm not sure in fact, that is a question or not, except it suggested that we should consider allowing the ground to be used by the general public. I have already stated in my reply that the Council would consider this to be wrong, the wrong usage of this particular facilities. The figure for 1981, I suspect to be 56.2 per cent of the total amount of time available. Now, Mr. CHOI in his statement or question has worked out the number of hours available as 365 days a year and 24 hours a day. That's a little unrealistic, because we cannot expect the sports ground to be used 24 hours a day, every day of the year. Having regard to the number of hours that would be expected it to be used in the day, when we say it has been fully used, which is, I would say, be 6 or 8 hours a day, and that would be the maximum usage. Then, we come to the figure of about 4 000 odd hours a year, perhaps is the maximum, and this year it was used for 2 000 hours, so I think that's a fairly high rate of usage. In addition, of course, the Council will keep an eye to a constant review and will do what we can to increase the usage slightly further. But I must say, I hold out very little hope of its being used by the general public, as in when they wish to use it. MR. YOUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I remember about a year ago, I asked a similar question. From the figures I have here, the figures for 1979 to 1981, I believe the increase is great and sometimes the percentage of using the ground is more than 90 per cent. But of course, the ground was mainly used for competition purposes and very few spectators were there. So, perhaps the general public have the wrong impression, in passing by the ground, seeing very few spectators and feeling that the ground was unused. MR. Lo (in English):-That's very possible. In fact, there may be event going on in the Wan Chai Sports Ground with 100 participants, but not many spectators, when somebody is driving and passing by there in a car, taking a casual look, may not realize that there is actually something going on. MR. HU (in English):—Mr. Chairman, can Mr. LO outline the underlying principle in limiting the usage of this particular sports ground. It is because over usage may affect the quality of the track? MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I think the point is this, if it is used by people or organizations who are experienced in athletics, then there will be little danger of damage. That's why we limit use to responsible organizations and for the Education Department, schools in the upper levels of the school competi- tion. These would be expected to be more experienced in organizing athletes and usage by those organizations should not result in damage. But for those less experienced who might just want to play around in the facilities and damage could be caused. I think that will be the principle we work on. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 60 of 146 79 MR. CHOI (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, thank you Mr. Lo for his reply. I think we have spent a lot of money on the ground and the ground is being subsidized by all the tax-payers of Hong Kong and I believe they should have a right to use the ground. So, I hope we should not limit the use of the ground to the 5 organizations mentioned in Mr. Lo's reply. I hope that all the registered and qualified associations should be able to use the ground. MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I'm afraid I will have to come to a disagreement with my friend, Mr. CHOI, that I don't think we can say, anyone who pays rates is entitled to make use of that particular sports ground. But as I've said, we shall certainly do what we can to increase the usage. MR. FRANCIS CHAINE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, the policy is that it should be limited to 5 groups. The 5th group is specific groups approved by the Urban Council. Now, I want to know the underlying facts, why should it be 5 groups only and why association or individual association should not be considered from case to case, because it says that they are refused as a matter of policy, another words any association if they are going to apply for the use of the ground, will they automatically be refused? MR. Lo (in English):-Mr. Chairman, this is an attempt to ensure that the organization using the ground is a responsible experienced body. That's why we limit to these particular categories. MR. C. K. CHAN (in English):—Mr. Chairman, it seems that the opening is under the 5 specific groups approved by the Urban Council, can we be enlightened either here or in the select committee, the criteria under which specific groups would be approved. Such as, the requirements and how experienced would the group be required, to be approved by the Council and to be able to use the ground. Is there any criteria or any standard? MR. Lo (in English):---As I have said, it would be those we think would be responsible and experienced organizations. This list of specific groups of course can be added to from time to time where justified. 5. MR. AMBROSE K. C. CHOI asked the following question (in Cantonese):—I have come to know that the population of Kwun Tong is more than six hundred thousand, but the indoor, outdoor stadia and swimming pools provided for this district are far less than the demand. When will the said facilities be sufficiently provided for Kwun Tong? MR. KENNETH T. C. LO, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):-This question concerns the provision of indoor and outdoor stadia and swimming pools in the Kwun Tong urban district. Dealing first with Indoor Games Halls, I am happy to report that one has recently been completed in the new Ngau Tau Kok Market complex. This will be opened to the public shortly. There are another three games halls under planning. A games hall at Hiu Kwong Street Playground is scheduled for Page 60 of 14 Page 60Page 61 Page 61 of 146
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Page 60 of 146

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

try to maximize the use of the ground. I think all the people of Hong Kong should be able to use the ground.

MR. LO (in English):—Mr. Chairman, in as far as what Mr. CHOI has said about the question, I would attempt to answer it, but I'm not sure in fact, that is a question or not, except it suggested that we should consider allowing the ground to be used by the general public. I have already stated in my reply that the Council would consider this to be wrong, the wrong usage of this particular facilities. The figure for 1981, I suspect to be 56.2 per cent of the total amount of time available. Now, Mr. CHOI in his statement or question has worked out the number of hours available as 365 days a year and 24 hours a day. That's a little unrealistic, because we cannot expect the sports ground to be used 24 hours a day, every day of the year. Having regard to the number of hours that would be expected it to be used in the day, when we say it has been fully used, which is, I would say, be 6 or 8 hours a day, and that would be the maximum usage. Then, we come to the figure of about 4 000 odd hours a year, perhaps is the maximum, and this year it was used for 2 000 hours, so I think that's a fairly high rate of usage. In addition, of course, the Council will keep an eye to a constant review and will do what we can to increase the usage slightly further. But I must say, I hold out very little hope of its being used by the general public, as in when they wish to use it.

MR. YOUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I remember about a year ago, I asked a similar question. From the figures I have here, the figures for 1979 to 1981, I believe the increase is great and sometimes the percentage of using the ground is more than 90 per cent. But of course, the ground was mainly used for competition purposes and very few spectators were there. So, perhaps the general public have the wrong impression, in passing by the ground, seeing very few spectators and feeling that the ground was unused.

MR. Lo (in English):-That's very possible. In fact, there may be event going on in the Wan Chai Sports Ground with 100 participants, but not many spectators, when somebody is driving and passing by there in a car, taking a casual look, may not realize that there is actually something going on.

MR. HU (in English):—Mr. Chairman, can Mr. LO outline the underlying principle in limiting the usage of this particular sports ground. It is because over usage may affect the quality of the track?

MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I think the point is this, if it is used by people or organizations who are experienced in athletics, then there will be little danger of damage. That's why we limit use to responsible organizations and for the Education Department, schools in the upper levels of the school competi- tion. These would be expected to be more experienced in organizing athletes and usage by those organizations should not result in damage. But for those less experienced who might just want to play around in the facilities and damage could be caused. I think that will be the principle we work on.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 60 of 146

79

MR. CHOI (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, thank you Mr. Lo for his reply. I think we have spent a lot of money on the ground and the ground is being subsidized by all the tax-payers of Hong Kong and I believe they should have a right to use the ground. So, I hope we should not limit the use of the ground to the 5 organizations mentioned in Mr. Lo's reply. I hope that all the registered and qualified associations should be able to use the ground.

MR. Lo (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I'm afraid I will have to come to a disagreement with my friend, Mr. CHOI, that I don't think we can say, anyone who pays rates is entitled to make use of that particular sports ground. But as I've said, we shall certainly do what we can to increase the usage.

MR. FRANCIS CHAINE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, the policy is that it should be limited to 5 groups. The 5th group is specific groups approved by the Urban Council. Now, I want to know the underlying facts, why should it be 5 groups only and why association or individual association should not be considered from case to case, because it says that they are refused as a matter of policy, another words any association if they are going to apply for the use of the ground, will they automatically be refused?

MR. Lo (in English):-Mr. Chairman, this is an attempt to ensure that the organization using the ground is a responsible experienced body. That's why we limit to these particular categories.

MR. C. K. CHAN (in English):—Mr. Chairman, it seems that the opening is under the 5 specific groups approved by the Urban Council, can we be enlightened either here or in the select committee, the criteria under which specific groups would be approved. Such as, the requirements and how experienced would the group be required, to be approved by the Council and to be able to use the ground. Is there any criteria or any standard?

MR. Lo (in English):---As I have said, it would be those we think would be responsible and experienced organizations. This list of specific groups of course can be added to from time to time where justified.

5. MR. AMBROSE K. C. CHOI asked the following question (in Cantonese):—I have come to know that the population of Kwun Tong is more than six hundred thousand, but the indoor, outdoor stadia and swimming pools provided for this district are far less than the demand. When will the said facilities be sufficiently provided for Kwun Tong?

MR. KENNETH T. C. LO, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):-This question concerns the provision of indoor and outdoor stadia and swimming pools in the Kwun Tong urban district.

Dealing first with Indoor Games Halls, I am happy to report that one has recently been completed in the new Ngau Tau Kok Market complex. This will be opened to the public shortly. There are another three games halls under planning. A games hall at Hiu Kwong Street Playground is scheduled for

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