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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. H. M. G. FORSGATE, CHAIRMAN OF THE FINANCE SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in English):-A full answer to this question would at this stage involve a disproportionate amount of staff time and resources, because the figures would have to be produced manually. But, when the Urban Council's accounts are computerized (in particular, the electricity accounts) in a few weeks' time, it should be possible to answer the questions more readily. One of the benefits from computerizing our accounting system will be to identify energy costs by locations to indicate where economy should be exercised.

All I can say now is that, at to-day's electricity rates, the difference in cost of electricity consumed between standard time and summer time, for example, two of our largest flood-lit outdoor facilities in Victoria Park and Morse Park is roughly estimated to be about $1 million for one summer.

MR. SULKE (in English):-In view of that sum just mentioned for the 2 parks, should this Council recommend to Government the re-introduction of summer time which will save this Council and the community a great deal of money.

Mr. Forsgate (in English):--Speaking on my own behalf, I think it would be excellent for this Council to exhort Government to re-consider that particular question, and I will ensure that's to be done.

MR. YOUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask the Chairman of the Finance Select Committee, can he confirm that the $1m mentioned here does not take any account of the value of recreational time lost by the public because of the abolition of summer time?

MR. FORSGATE (in English):-No, I can confirm that the figure is merely an estimate on electricity consumed.

4. THE HONOURABLE SELINA CHOW asked the following question (in English):--There have been complaints concerning the behaviour of our General Duties Teams in public. Can this Council be informed whether the Urban Services Department is satisfied with the present standard of performance of the General Duties Teams?

MR. SHUM CHOI-SANG, Chairman of the MARKETS AND STREet Traders SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in Cantonese):-This question concerns the behaviour and standard of performance of General Duties Teams.

General Duties Teams have been formed quite rapidly over the last few years and, inevitably, there have been difficulties in finding enough people of the right type to man the teams as well as in working out the most effective structure for them. The present structure is certainly not the last word on the subject and, even now, proposals are being worked out for an improvement in the ratio of supervisors to other enforcement staff. These proposals will be submitted to the Council shortly together with proposals which will bring the operational and

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leave relief for all ranks up to the approved standard. General Dutics Teams work on a seven days a week and two shifts per day basis and it is essential that adequate staff are available to provide for operational and leave relief. If these recommendations are approved by the Council, they should result in better on- street supervision and higher standards of performance.

A second factor which affects behaviour and standard of performance is training. Basic and refresher training is provided for all members of General Duties Teams and the basic training course lasts for five weeks.

Another factor which affects standards of performance is morale. The function of the General Duties Teams is to provide an effective presence on the ground for the control of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers by ensuring that licensed hawkers adhere to their licence conditions and that strict enforcement action is taken against unlicensed hawking. It is not easy work. I hope that the improved structure for General Duties Teams, if the Council agree to it, will help to improve morale and, in addition, the department is regularly reviewing facilities such as transport and equipment. Considerable progress has already been made in this respect.

Finally, I should make the point that General Duties Teams, unlike the old Hawker Control Force, are not part of a disciplined service and some allowance must be made for this. There are those who feel that hawker control should be carried out by a disciplined service and, possibly, this would be the ideal solution. However, assuming that the Police, because of their other com- mitments, could not take on this task, it would be necessary for the Urban Council to set up its own service. This would be very costly and the Council's experience with the Hawker Control Force was that it would be necessary to provide salaries and conditions of service comparable to those of the other disciplined services. Without them the experiment would fail. In the circumstances I believe that General Duties Teams provide the only viable alternative. Although, from time to time, members of the public have complained about the behaviour of individual members and indeed specific complaints are looked into by the department. On the other hand, due credit should be given to them for performing a difficult and thankless task. Through their efforts the Council has been able to improve conditions in many of the streets in which hawking takes place and, in this respect, recent progress has been much better than in previous years.

MRS. CHOW (in English):--Mr. Chairman, surely, the morale of the General Duties Teams would depend in part on the respect they command in the community, and that in turn depends somewhat on the behaviour in public cases. Does their basic and refresher training include any specific mention of how they should behave in public?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, in their training, the members are reminded that they should be polite to the people in general.

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