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these small scale food caterers so that they can legally operate their small business to meet the pressing needs of the blue and white collar workers? CHAIRMAN (in English):-This is about illegal food caterers instead of canteens; nevertheless, if you wish to give an answer, Mr CHOW, please do

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have argued this for quite some time in the past and I want to take the MR CHOW (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, as to Mr CHUNG's question, opportunity to clarify one or two points. The Urban Council has never pro- hibited food catering. It is just that they have to operate in licensed premises. In other words, food catering must abide by all the Health Regulations They must apply and must be given the appropriate licences. There is one

serious problem in our present health requirements, and that is the food catering establishments are food factories and under the present regulations, these food factories can only operate in commercial premises and not in domestic premises. Our Select Committee has discussed ways and means of solving the problem of people in the food catering trade, but because of the law and we have no consent to amend the law, so as the law stands, it the food catering business is not licensed we consider them unlicensed caterers and under the law, we have a right to protect the public health. Some food caterers operate in narrow streets and on rooftops and the health situation in these places are quite doubtful and not up to standards. Because of dissatisfaction on illegal food caterers we take action to eradicate them step by step. All along the Select Committee wants to help these small scale businesses so that they can abide by Health Regulations and operate in legal premises which are licensed.

DR DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, I do not doubt for one moment Mr CHOW's sincerity and his assurance that lunches for factory workers can be solved. I want to ask Mr CHOW a question. Aside from negative measures and passive measures that is the setting up of canteens, has the Select Committee actively considered asking the Government to make some legislations so that all large scale factories would have their own canteens for workers?

MR CHOW (in Cantonese):-Dr HUANG's doubt may be related to two problems. One may be that his understanding of canteens is not complete or may be that I speak Cantonese with a Shanghainese accent. (Laughter). What I mean is that the Members of the Select Committee concerned will try their best to solve this problem. We cannot solve this problem one hundred percent, because many other Government departments are involved and we have to have discussions with them. May be Dr HUANG will be able to understand my Cantonese this time. (Laughter). As to forcing the setting up of canteens in large factories, we are discussing the regulations for canteens with a view to amending the legislation so in the course of dis

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cussions we have looked into this problem and it is not a problem whereby I can give you proposals right now because it involves a lot of other problems and a lot of difficulties are bound to pop up.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-The point should be made that this matter is now with the Secretary for the Environment so that, in new leases, there would be a condition stipulating the setting up of canteens in industrial premises. That answers the supplementary question put by Miss TAM too.

MR HOWARD H. W. YOUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, does the Chairman of the Select Committee agree that when the Select Committee discussed the question of provision of canteens in factories, restrictions men- tioned by some other Government departments were unrealistic and unenforce- able. Therefore the Urban Council must urge these departments to refrain from their unrealistic stand, otherwise, there is no way whereby we can solve the problem of lunch for factory workers?

MR CHOW (in Cantonese):-I agree with Mr YOUNG. This indeed did happen. I believe that other Government departments have exerted unrealistic pressure on our proposal and after a lot of discussions, we refused to accept the

pressure.

MR AUGUSTINE S. K. CHUNG (in Cantonese): ---Mr Chairman, the canteens under discussion mean only those in factory areas catering for low income blue collar workers, but have we looked into the needs of white collar workers in industrial and commercial arcas. Their income may be very low and because of the rising cost of living they also have difficulties in lunches. Can we look into the setting up of similar canteens in commercial buildings to help low-paid white collar workers? My second question is if we can set up canteens in commercial and industrial areas to cater for low-paid blue and white collar workers? If we can help these food caterers to operate these canteens then we will kill two birds with one stone.

MR CHOW (in Cantonese):-First of all I want to reply to the question of the needs of the white collar workers, Miss TAM's question concerns the operation of canteens for workers in industrial buildings. Therefore, the reply is limited to answering Miss TAM's question. As to Mr CHUNG's question of blue collars in other areas, I say that the definition of canteens does not only include canteens in factories, it may also include canteens in other buildings. Our Select Committee will discuss the report of the Urban Services Depart- ment and then we will make a decision. I am sure we can solve this problem. As to Mr CHUNG's question of food caterers, I believe this can be discussed in our future meetings. If there are suggestions of improvement to the present policy, we will discuss them and then put forward proposals to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.