1979 — Page 43

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 43 of 136

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR SHUM CHOI-SANG, CHAIRMAN OF THE STREET TRADERS SELECT COMMITTEE replied as follows (in Cantonese):-This question concerns the organization General Duties Teams and their operational standards and performance. Twelve General Duties Teams with 142 posts each have now been established, five on Hong Kong Island and seven in Kowloon, making a total of 1,704 posts altogether. Each of the ten Urban Districts has its own team and on Hong Kong Island and the other in the Regional Headquarters in Kowloon of the two remaining teams, one is deployed in the Regional Headquarters to support District teams when they have to carry out major operations. The Regional teams are intended to act as a reserve and to provide support. The strength of the teams at present is 1,625 members at the level of Senior Overseer and below, leaving 79 vacancies which are in the process of being filled.

For the first time, the Urban Council now has a large enforcement body available for the control of hawkers in all parts of the urban areas. The teams operate on a district basis, that is, they are under the direction of Urban Services Officers, and this arrangement will enable the Urban Services Department to improve its management of hawker areas, as well as to step up action against illegal hawkers.

However, of the twelve General Duties Teams, seven are comparatively new and require time and experience before they are fully effective. In this connection, the Urban Council has recently accepted the need for an increased level of training for all General Duties Teams personnel and has approved the creation of a centralized Training Unit with its own staff. Training facilities are at present provided at the Chatham Road Camp but the Council has recently agreed to make use of under-utilized car parking space at the Aberdeen Swimming Pool as a permanent training school.

The Department is also studying the structure, operations, and deployment of the teams to see what further improvements may be desirable.

The anticipated cost of General Duties Teams in 1979/80 is $39.8 million and the projected cost for 1980/81 $44.8 million, including training costs. The figures for other control services are $5.6 million for 1979/80 and $6 million for 1980/81. The total expenditure on the management and control of street traders including staff and administration expenses will therefore be $45.4 million for 1979/80 and $50.8 million for 1980/81.

MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, am I right in assuming that the figures of $45.4 m. and $50.8 m. in fact include only direct costs to the Urban Council and exclude indirect charges, i.e. charges borne by Government for senior executive staff and other expenses?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, I agree with Mr MACKENZIE. But other expenses for senior staff occupy a very small proportion in relation to the total sum of $40 m. and $50 m.

MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, as the increased cost of street trader control in the past two or three years has arisen, if my memory serves me correctly, from something around $18 m. to the figure exceeding $50 m., has the Street Traders Select Committee given any thoughts, firstly to this large increase, and any thoughts regarding reimbursement from Government for these unforeseen expenses.

MR SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr Chairman, I believe that all Members of this Council are concerned about the great increase in the cost of management of street traders and we want to increase sources of revenue. We may urge Government to give us a greater subsidy. As to Mr MACKENZIE'S question, I will certainly raise this point again at our Select Committee meeting.

DR DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):—Mr Chairman, about the expenses for the General Duties Teams just mentioned, do they include the recent revision of pay for the civil service?

MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Off hand I cannot give you a definite reply, but probably this has not been taken into consideration.

MR HOWARD H. W. YOUNG (in English):—Mr Chairman, am I also correct in assuming that the costs reported here do not in fact include other costs indirectly incurred by the Urban Council, such as extra cost of sending in cleansing teams for certain hawker areas?

MR SHUM (in Cantonese): -Mr Chairman, yes, that is correct.

DR HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, the hawker problem has concerned the Urban Council for over 10 years and now we have large enforcement teams and we have to spend nearly one-tenth of our total revenue in this field. But what I am worrying about is, and can Mr SHUM enlighten me, can there be a day when we can solve the hawking problem completely and can we remedy the situation?

MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, as to the hawking problem I believe this is serious in every part of the world and especially in places with increasing populations. As to whether teams can solve this problem well this is our hope and now we still need time to give the team members further training because as I have just said, we have just set up a training centre. When training is completed I am sure we can improve the hawking situation, but at present, according to USD statistics, there has been no noticeable increase in the number of illegal hawkers. This may be because we have increased enforcement staff.

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Page 43 of 136 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL (c) Total services attributable to Street Traders, including staff and administrative expenses. MR SHUM CHOI-SANG, CHAIRMAN OF THE STREET TRADERS SELECT COMMITTEE replied as follows (in Cantonese):-This question concerns the organization General Duties Teams and their operational standards and performance. Twelve General Duties Teams with 142 posts each have now been established, five on Hong Kong Island and seven in Kowloon, making a total of 1,704 posts altogether. Each of the ten Urban Districts has its own team and on Hong Kong Island and the other in the Regional Headquarters in Kowloon of the two remaining teams, one is deployed in the Regional Headquarters to support District teams when they have to carry out major operations. The Regional teams are intended to act as a reserve and to provide support. The strength of the teams at present is 1,625 members at the level of Senior Overseer and below, leaving 79 vacancies which are in the process of being filled. For the first time, the Urban Council now has a large enforcement body available for the control of hawkers in all parts of the urban areas. The teams operate on a district basis, that is, they are under the direction of Urban Services Officers, and this arrangement will enable the Urban Services Department to improve its management of hawker areas, as well as to step up action against illegal hawkers. However, of the twelve General Duties Teams, seven are comparatively new and require time and experience before they are fully effective. In this connection, the Urban Council has recently accepted the need for an increased level of training for all General Duties Teams personnel and has approved the creation of a centralized Training Unit with its own staff. Training facilities are at present provided at the Chatham Road Camp but the Council has recently agreed to make use of under-utilized car parking space at the Aberdeen Swimming Pool as a permanent training school. The Department is also studying the structure, operations, and deployment of the teams to see what further improvements may be desirable. The anticipated cost of General Duties Teams in 1979/80 is $39.8 million and the projected cost for 1980/81 $44.8 million, including training costs. The figures for other control services are $5.6 million for 1979/80 and $6 million for 1980/81. The total expenditure on the management and control of street traders including staff and administration expenses will therefore be $45.4 million for 1979/80 and $50.8 million for 1980/81. MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, am I right in assuming that the figures of $45.4 m. and $50.8 m. in fact include only direct costs to the Urban Council and exclude indirect charges, i.e. charges borne by Government for senior executive staff and other expenses? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, I agree with Mr MACKENZIE. But other expenses for senior staff occupy a very small proportion in relation to the total sum of $40 m. and $50 m. MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, as the increased cost of street trader control in the past two or three years has arisen, if my memory serves me correctly, from something around $18 m. to the figure exceeding $50 m., has the Street Traders Select Committee given any thoughts, firstly to this large increase, and any thoughts regarding reimbursement from Government for these unforeseen expenses. MR SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr Chairman, I believe that all Members of this Council are concerned about the great increase in the cost of management of street traders and we want to increase sources of revenue. We may urge Government to give us a greater subsidy. As to Mr MACKENZIE'S question, I will certainly raise this point again at our Select Committee meeting. DR DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):—Mr Chairman, about the expenses for the General Duties Teams just mentioned, do they include the recent revision of pay for the civil service? MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Off hand I cannot give you a definite reply, but probably this has not been taken into consideration. MR HOWARD H. W. YOUNG (in English):—Mr Chairman, am I also correct in assuming that the costs reported here do not in fact include other costs indirectly incurred by the Urban Council, such as extra cost of sending in cleansing teams for certain hawker areas? MR SHUM (in Cantonese): -Mr Chairman, yes, that is correct. DR HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, the hawker problem has concerned the Urban Council for over 10 years and now we have large enforcement teams and we have to spend nearly one-tenth of our total revenue in this field. But what I am worrying about is, and can Mr SHUM enlighten me, can there be a day when we can solve the hawking problem completely and can we remedy the situation? MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, as to the hawking problem I believe this is serious in every part of the world and especially in places with increasing populations. As to whether teams can solve this problem well this is our hope and now we still need time to give the team members further training because as I have just said, we have just set up a training centre. When training is completed I am sure we can improve the hawking situation, but at present, according to USD statistics, there has been no noticeable increase in the number of illegal hawkers. This may be because we have increased enforcement staff. Page 43 of 136 53 52

Baseline (Original)

Page 43 of 136 Page 43 of 136 53 52 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL (c) Total services attributable to Street Traders, including staff and, ministrative expenses. MR SHUM CHOI-SANG, CHAIRMAN OF THE STREET TRADERS SELECT COMMITI replied as follows (in Cantonese):-This question concerns the organization General Duties Teams and their operational standards and performance, Twelve General Duties Teams with 142 posts each have now been esta lished, five on Hong Kong Island and seven in Kowloon, making a total 1,704 posts altogether. Each of the ten Urban Districts has its own team a on Hong Kong Island and the other in the Regional Headquarters in Kowlo of the two remaining teams, one is deployed in the Regional Headquarte to District teams when they have to carry out major operations. The act The Regional teams are intended to act as a reserve and to provide suppe strength of the teams at present is 1,625 members at the level of Seni Overseer and below, leaving 79 vacancies which are in the process of be filled. For the first time, the Urban Council now has a large enforcement bé available for the control of hawkers in all parts of the urban areas. T teams operate on a district basis, that is, they are under the direction Urban Services Officers, and this arrangement will enable the Urban Servic Department to improve its management of hawker areas, as well as to ste up action against illegal hawkers. However, of the twelve General Duties Teams, seven are comparative new and require time and experience before they are fully effective. In t connection, the Urban Council has recently accepted the need for an increase level of training for all General Duties Teams personnel and has approve the creation of a centralized Training Unit with its own staff. Training fact ties are at present provided at the Chatham Road Camp but the Council' recently agreed to make use of under-utilized car parking space at th Aberdeen Swimming Pool as a permanent training school. The Department is also studying the structure, operations and deployme of the teams to see what further improvements may be desirable. The anticipated cost of General Duties Teams in 1979/80 is $39.8 millio and the projected cost for 1980/81 $44.8 million, including training cost The figures for other control services are $5.6 million for 1979/80 and million for 1980/81. The total expenditure on the management and contr of street traders including staff and administration expenses will therefore be $45.4 million for 1979/80 and $50.8 million for 1980/81. MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, am I right in assuming the the figures of $45.4 m. and $50.8 m. in fact include only direct cost 10 the Urban Council and exclude indirect charges, i.e. charges borne by Govern ment for senior executive staff and other expenses? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, I agree with Mr MACKENZIE. But other expenses for senior staff occupy a very small proportion in relation to the total sum of $40 m. and $50 m. MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, as the increased cost of street trader control in the past two or three years has arisen, if my memory serves me correctly, from something around $18 m. to the figure exceeding $50 m., has the Street Traders Select Committee given any thoughts, firstly this large increase, and any thoughts regarding reimbursement from Government for these unforeseen expenses. MR SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr Chairman, I believe that all Members of this Council are concerned about the great increase in the cost of manage- ment of street traders and we want to increase sources of revenue. We may urge Government to give us a greater subsidy. As to Mr MACKENZIE'S question, I will certainly raise this point again at our Select Committee meeting. DR DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):—Mr Chairman, about the expenses for the General Duties Teams just mentioned, do they include the recent revision of pay for the civil service? MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Off hand I cannot give you a definite reply, but probably this has not been taken into consideration. MR HOWARD H. W. YOUNG (in English):—Mr Chairman, am I also correct in assuming that the costs reported here do not in fact include other costs indirectly incurred by the Urban Council, such as extra cost of sending in cleansing teams for certain hawker areas? MR SHUM (in Cantonese): -Mr Chairman, yes, that is correct. DR HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, the hawker problem has con- cerned the Urban Council for over 10 years and now we have large enforce- ment teams and we have to spend nearly one-tenth of our total revenue in this field. But what I am worrying about is, and can Mr SHUM enlighten me, can there be a day when we can solve the hawking problem completely and can we remedy the situation? MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, as to the hawking problem I believe this is serious in every part of the world and especially in places with increasing populations. As to whether teams can solve this problem well this is our hope and now we still need time to give the team members further training because as I have just said, we have just set up a training centre. When training is completed I am sure we can improve the hawking situation, but at present, according to USD statistics, there has been no noticeable increase in the number of illegal hawkers. This may be because we have increased enforcement staff.

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Page 43 of 136

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

ministrative expenses.

MR SHUM CHOI-SANG, CHAIRMAN OF THE STREET TRADERS SELECT COMMITI replied as follows (in Cantonese):-This question concerns the organization General Duties Teams and their operational standards and performance, Twelve General Duties Teams with 142 posts each have now been esta lished, five on Hong Kong Island and seven in Kowloon, making a total 1,704 posts altogether. Each of the ten Urban Districts has its own team a on Hong Kong Island and the other in the Regional Headquarters in Kowlo of the two remaining teams, one is deployed in the Regional Headquarte

to District teams when they have to carry out major operations. The act The Regional teams are intended to act as a reserve and to provide suppe strength of the teams at present is 1,625 members at the level of Seni Overseer and below, leaving 79 vacancies which are in the process of be

filled.

For the first time, the Urban Council now has a large enforcement bé available for the control of hawkers in all parts of the urban areas. T teams operate on a district basis, that is, they are under the direction Urban Services Officers, and this arrangement will enable the Urban Servic Department to improve its management of hawker areas, as well as to ste up action against illegal hawkers.

However, of the twelve General Duties Teams, seven are comparative new and require time and experience before they are fully effective. In t connection, the Urban Council has recently accepted the need for an increase level of training for all General Duties Teams personnel and has approve the creation of a centralized Training Unit with its own staff. Training fact ties are at present provided at the Chatham Road Camp but the Council' recently agreed to make use of under-utilized car parking space at th Aberdeen Swimming Pool as a permanent training school.

The Department is also studying the structure, operations and deployme of the teams to see what further improvements may be desirable.

The anticipated cost of General Duties Teams in 1979/80 is $39.8 millio and the projected cost for 1980/81 $44.8 million, including training cost The figures for other control services are $5.6 million for 1979/80 and million for 1980/81. The total expenditure on the management and contr of street traders including staff and administration expenses will therefore be $45.4 million for 1979/80 and $50.8 million for 1980/81.

MR MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr Chairman, am I right in assuming the the figures of $45.4 m. and $50.8 m. in fact include only direct cost 10 the Urban Council and exclude indirect charges, i.e. charges borne by Govern ment for senior executive staff and other expenses?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, I agree with Mr MACKENZIE. But other expenses for senior staff occupy a very small proportion in relation to

the total sum of $40 m. and $50 m.

this large increase, and any thoughts regarding reimbursement from Government for these unforeseen expenses.

MR SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr Chairman, I believe that all Members of this Council are concerned about the great increase in the cost of manage- ment of street traders and we want to increase sources of revenue. We may urge Government to give us a greater subsidy. As to Mr MACKENZIE'S question, I will certainly raise this point again at our Select Committee

meeting.

DR DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):—Mr Chairman, about the expenses for the General Duties Teams just mentioned, do they include the recent revision of pay for the civil service?

MR SHUM (in Cantonese):-Off hand I cannot give you a definite reply, but probably this has not been taken into consideration.

MR SHUM (in Cantonese): -Mr Chairman, yes, that is correct.

DR HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr Chairman, the hawker problem has con- cerned the Urban Council for over 10 years and now we have large enforce- ment teams and we have to spend nearly one-tenth of our total revenue in this field. But what I am worrying about is, and can Mr SHUM enlighten me, can there be a day when we can solve the hawking problem completely and can we remedy the situation?

1979 — Page 43

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