Page 96 of 174
155
154
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. PETER P. F. CHAN (in English): - Mr. Chairman, regarding the investigation, may I know whether the results may be made known to the public in due course?
DR. HU (in English): - I think so, if that is the better treatment of the matter.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English): — Mr. Chairman, two supplementaries on clarification. Both are on the second paragraph of the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee's answer. The first is the words "in certain cases allow widows or widowers or registered assistants to the licences". Surely, it is long-term operators whether or not they are registered assistants?
CHAIRMAN (in English): - Dr. Hu, will you please answer Mr. BERNACCHI'S Supplementary?
DR. HU (in English): - The registered assistants and the widows or widowers as the case may be are, in most cases, the same person. The registered assistants are often the long-term operators of the stall.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English): - I agree there, but it does not require that they are registered assistants. They might be but the test is not registered assistant so much as long-term operator. Am I not right?
DR. HU (in English): - I think the answer is yes.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English): - The other one is the part of the answer "although transfers are prohibited". Is it not true to say that transfers are not prohibited? In fact, they are encouraged to long-term operators so that we can get rid of the licensee who is only nominal and get a licensee who is actually operating the stall. And in future, of course, the operators are the licensees.
DR. HU (in English): - The policy of the Council is to gradually reduce the hawkers on the street, but the two cases Mr. BERNACCHI has now referred to, that is to say that the operator who is the licensee and the operator who is not the licensee, in these two cases, the Council prefers that the operator is the licensee. The Council, of course, does not like the licensee to be one person while the actual operator of the stall is another person, but that circumstance is still now existing.
CHAIRMAN (in English): - Thank you. Mr. F. K. Hu and Mr. John MACKENZIE, in that order.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. F. K. HU (in English): - Mr. Chairman, Dr. Hu mentioned that in certain cases, the genuine operator or registered assistant could succeed to the licence. Can this succession policy cover up the illegal subletting and eventually lead to transfer with the result that there is no reduction in hawkers which is the agreed policy of the Council?
DR. HU (in English): - I understand Mr. F. K. Hu's view concerning this succession policy of the Council. It may be the case that it eventually leads to illegal subletting, but the Council is very watchful to that circumstance. We never want that to happen.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English): - I rise on a point of clarification. When I said, and I think the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee agreed with me, that transfers are allowed to long-term operators where the licensee has not been operating, I was myself wrong in the word "transfer". The position is that a new licence is issued to the actual operator. I think that is correct. I will ask it as a supplementary question, just to put the record straight.
CHAIRMAN (in English): - May I refer this question to the Hawker Appeals Sub-Committee, whose Chairman will no doubt lend his experience to the solution of the problem. (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI (in English): - Yes, I think that is the answer.
CHAIRMAN (in English): - Thank you. (Laughter).
MR. JOHN MACKENZIE (in English): - Mr. Chairman, what is the present level of licence fee for a cooked food stall of the type we are discussing?
DR. HU (in English): - The cooked food stall licence fee is over $2,000 per annum.
MR. P. F. CHAN (in English): - Regarding the investigation again, may I know whether the Council can consider asking the Police to assist?
DR. HU (in English): - I do not think so in my personal view, unless the circumstances in future warrant it because illegal subletting is not a criminal offence.
MR. CHAN (in English): - Mr. Chairman, may I ask Dr. Hu to repeat his statement?
DR. HU (in English): - I said my personal view is "no" to the answer unless in future the circumstance warrants it. I said this because to sublet is not a criminal offence.
Page 96 of 174
155
154
Page 96 of 174
155
154
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. PETER P. F. CHAN (in English): -Mr. Chairman, regarding the investigation, may I know whether the results may be made known to the public in due course?
DR. HU (in English): --I think so, if that is the better treatment of the matter.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English):—Mr. Chairman, two supple- mentaries on clarification. Both are on the second paragraph of the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee's answer. The first is the words "in certain cases allow widows or widowers or registered assist- ants to the licences". Surely, it is long-term operators whether or not they are registered assistants?
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Dr. Hu, will you please answer Mr. BERNACCHI'S Supplementary?
DR. HU (in English):-The registered assistants and the widows or widowers as the case may be are, in most cases, the same person. The registered assistants are often the long-term operators of the stall.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-I agree there, but it does not require that they are registered assistants. They might be but the test is not registered assistant so much as long-term operator. Am I not right?
DR. HU (in English): -I think the answer is yes.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-The other one is the part of the answer "although transfers are prohibited". Is it not true to say that transfers are not prohibited? In fact, they are encouraged to long-term operators so that we can get rid of the licensee who is only nominal and get a licensee who is actually operating the stall. And in future, of course, the operators are the licensees.
DR. HU (in English):-The policy of the Council is to gradually reduce the hawkers on the street, but the two cases Mr. BERNACCHI has now referred to, that is to say that the operator who is the licensee and the operator who is not the licensee, in these two cases, the Council prefers that the operator is the licensee. The Council, of course, does not like the licensee to be one person while the actual operator of the stall is another person, but that circumstances is still now existing.
CHAIRMAN (in English): ---Thank you. Mr. F. K. Hu and Mr. John MACKENZIE, in that order.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. F. K. HU (in English):-Mr. Chairman, Dr. Hu mentioned that in certain cases, the genuine operator or registered assistant could succeed to the licence. Can this succession policy cover up the illegal subletting and eventually lead to transfer with the result that there is no reduction in hawkers which is the agreed policy of the Council?
DR. HU (in English):-I understand Mr. F. K. Hu's view con- cerning this succession policy of the Council. It may be the case that it eventually leads to illegal subletting, but the Council is very watchful to that circumstance. We never want that to happen.
MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-I rise on a point of clarification. When I said, and I think the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Com- mittee agreed with me, that transfers are allowed to long-term operators where the licensee has not been operating, I was myself wrong in the word "transfer". The position is that a new licence is issued to the actual operator. I think that is correct. I will ask it as a supplemen- tary question, just to put the record straight.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-May I refer this question to the Hawker Appeals Sub-Committee, whose Chairman will no doubt lend his ex- perience to the solution of the problem. (Laughter).
MR. BERNACCHI (in English):-Yes, I think that is the answer.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Thank you. (Laughter).
MR. JOHN MACKENZIE (in English): --Mr. Chairman, what is the present level of licence fee for a cooked food stall of the type we are discussing?
DR. HU (in English):-The cooked food stall licence fee is over $2,000 per annum.
MR. P. F. CHAN (in English):-Regarding the investigation again, may I know whether the Council can consider asking the Police to assist?
DR. HU (in English):--I do not think so in my personal view, unless the circumstances in future warrant it because illegal subletting is not a criminal offence.
MR. CHAN (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask Dr. Hu to repeat his statement?
DR. HU (in English):-I said my personal view is "no" to the answer unless in future the circumstance warrants it. I said this because to sublet is not a criminal offence.
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.