1976 — Page 117

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 117 of 135

196

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

way of prosecution and seizure of goods is not specifically directed against the young and able-bodied, as opposed to other unlicensed hawkers; although there is reason to believe that over the last 12 months enforcement action and improved employment opportunities have led a number of unlicensed hawkers to cease hawking and obtain other employment. Further success in reducing the number of unlicensed hawkers will only be possible with a greater and more effective (and inevitably more expensive) enforcement presence on the ground.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Mr. Chairman, could the Chairman of the Select Committee clarify one point? At one time, and not too recently, the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers was nearly equal or even more than the number of licensed hawkers. Could we be given a reason why the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers, which he has now stated as 11,266, has dropped so sharply from the original estimate of an equal number of unlicensed as against licensed?

DR. HU (in English): -Of course, when business was not very good in Hong Kong, there were a lot of unlicensed hawkers. But since business became better, there are less unlicensed hawkers. This figure, 11,266 was obtained after the Department made a very careful estimate and investigation. I did say in my Annual Speech in this Council that the figure is more or less the same as it is now in answering Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's question.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Am I assuming correctly that the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers in the urban areas is in the region of about 44,000—45,000?

DR. HU (in English): -Yes, the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers is more or less about 45,000.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Does that mean, speaking in round figures, that there has been a considerable drop from the original estimate made not too long ago, 18 months to 2 years, that the drop has been from over 80,000 to about 44,000?

DR. HU (in English): -The original estimate was not, of course, as high as 80,000, it might have been about 60,000 to 75,000. It has dropped to 45,000. That, I may say, is to show the right direction of our hawker policy.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

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MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Does that include the number of hawkers who are in the Housing Authority estates in urban areas?

DR. HU (in English): -Licensed hawkers, yes, because we are still the licensing authority for issuing licences to hawkers in Housing Authority estates. I understand that it probably also includes the unlicensed hawkers in housing estates. As Mr. CHEONG-LEEN probably knows that nowadays there are less unlicensed hawkers in housing estates.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Is it correct to say that, at present in the precincts of housing estates, that is areas which are under the control of Housing Authority, all hawkers do not have licences?

DR. HU (in English): -I think that in housing estates, the hawkers trading there are still in need of a licence.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -May I ask the final supplementary, Mr. Chairman. Since there is an experiment on Hong Kong Island, where hawker control is combining the efforts of both General Duties Team and the Hawker Control Force, how soon is it estimated by the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that the result of this experiment will be known, and when will it be possible to consider expanding the experiment both on the island and in Kowloon for a strong presence on the ground?

CHAIRMAN (in English): -The Chairman will accept that question for the next month's meeting. (Laughter)

DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, Dr. Hu said that because the number of work force has increased, so the number of hawkers decreased. Can I ask the Chairman of the Committee if his Committee, during our recession periods, use the policy of unlicensed hawkers as a means of solving the unemployment problem?

DR. HU (in English): -That is a controversial issue, and it has not been clearly decided by our Select Committee. So I really cannot answer that question.

DR. HUANG (in Cantonese): -In Dr. Hu's opinion, is the decrease in the number of unlicensed hawkers due to the fact that they have got other jobs or because of the work of the General Duties Teams and Hawker Control Forces?

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Page 117 of 135 196 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL way of prosecution and seizure of goods is not specifically directed against the young and able-bodied, as opposed to other unlicensed hawkers; although there is reason to believe that over the last 12 months enforcement action and improved employment opportunities have led a number of unlicensed hawkers to cease hawking and obtain other employment. Further success in reducing the number of unlicensed hawkers will only be possible with a greater and more effective (and inevitably more expensive) enforcement presence on the ground. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Mr. Chairman, could the Chairman of the Select Committee clarify one point? At one time, and not too recently, the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers was nearly equal or even more than the number of licensed hawkers. Could we be given a reason why the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers, which he has now stated as 11,266, has dropped so sharply from the original estimate of an equal number of unlicensed as against licensed? DR. HU (in English): -Of course, when business was not very good in Hong Kong, there were a lot of unlicensed hawkers. But since business became better, there are less unlicensed hawkers. This figure, 11,266 was obtained after the Department made a very careful estimate and investigation. I did say in my Annual Speech in this Council that the figure is more or less the same as it is now in answering Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's question. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Am I assuming correctly that the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers in the urban areas is in the region of about 44,000—45,000? DR. HU (in English): -Yes, the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers is more or less about 45,000. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Does that mean, speaking in round figures, that there has been a considerable drop from the original estimate made not too long ago, 18 months to 2 years, that the drop has been from over 80,000 to about 44,000? DR. HU (in English): -The original estimate was not, of course, as high as 80,000, it might have been about 60,000 to 75,000. It has dropped to 45,000. That, I may say, is to show the right direction of our hawker policy. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 117 of 135 197 MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Does that include the number of hawkers who are in the Housing Authority estates in urban areas? DR. HU (in English): -Licensed hawkers, yes, because we are still the licensing authority for issuing licences to hawkers in Housing Authority estates. I understand that it probably also includes the unlicensed hawkers in housing estates. As Mr. CHEONG-LEEN probably knows that nowadays there are less unlicensed hawkers in housing estates. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Is it correct to say that, at present in the precincts of housing estates, that is areas which are under the control of Housing Authority, all hawkers do not have licences? DR. HU (in English): -I think that in housing estates, the hawkers trading there are still in need of a licence. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -May I ask the final supplementary, Mr. Chairman. Since there is an experiment on Hong Kong Island, where hawker control is combining the efforts of both General Duties Team and the Hawker Control Force, how soon is it estimated by the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that the result of this experiment will be known, and when will it be possible to consider expanding the experiment both on the island and in Kowloon for a strong presence on the ground? CHAIRMAN (in English): -The Chairman will accept that question for the next month's meeting. (Laughter) DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, Dr. Hu said that because the number of work force has increased, so the number of hawkers decreased. Can I ask the Chairman of the Committee if his Committee, during our recession periods, use the policy of unlicensed hawkers as a means of solving the unemployment problem? DR. HU (in English): -That is a controversial issue, and it has not been clearly decided by our Select Committee. So I really cannot answer that question. DR. HUANG (in Cantonese): -In Dr. Hu's opinion, is the decrease in the number of unlicensed hawkers due to the fact that they have got other jobs or because of the work of the General Duties Teams and Hawker Control Forces? Page 117 of 135

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Page 117 of 135 196 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL way of prosecution and seizure of goods is not specifically directed against the young and able-bodied, as opposed to other unlicensed hawkers; although there is reason to believe that over the last 12 months enforcement action and improved employment opportunities have led a number of unlicensed hawkers to cease hawking and obtain other employment. Further success in reducing the number of unlicensed hawkers will only be possible with a greater and more effective (and inevitably more expensive) enforcement presence on the ground. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Mr. Chairman, could the Chair- man of the Select Committee clarify one point? At one time, and not too recently, the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers was nearly equal or even more than the number of licensed hawkers. Could we be given a reason why the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers, which he has now stated as 11,266, has dropped so sharply from the original estimate of an equal number of unlicensed as against licensed? DR. HU (in English):-Of course, when business was not very good in Hong Kong, there were a lot of unlicensed hawkers. But since business became better, there are less unlicensed hawkers. This figure, 11,266 was obtained after the Department made a very careful estimate and investigation. I did say in my Annual Speech in this Council that the figure is more or less the same as it is now in answering Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's question. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Am I assuming correctly that the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers in the urban areas is in the region of about 44,000—45,000? DR. HU (in English):-Yes, the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers is more or less about 45,000. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Does that mean, speaking in round figures, that there has been a considerable drop from the original estimate made not too long ago, 18 months to 2 years, that the drop has been from over 80,000 to about 44,000? DR. HU (in English):-The original estimate, was not, of course, as high as 80,000, it might have been about 60,000 to 75,000. It has dropped to 45,000. That, I may say, is to show the right direction of our hawker policy. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 117 of 135 197 MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Does that include the number of hawkers who are in the Housing Authority estates in urban areas? DR. HU (in English):-Licensed hawkers, yes, because we are still the licensing authority for issuing licences to hawkers in Housing Authority estates. I understand that it probably also includes the unlicensed hawkers in housing estates. As Mr. CHEONG-LEEN probably knows that nowadays there are less unlicensed hawkers in housing estates. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Is it correct to say that, at present in the precincts of housing estates, that is areas which are under the control of Housing Authority, all hawkers do not have licences? DR. HU (in English):-I think that in housing estates, the hawkers trading there are still in need of a licence. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-May I ask the final supple- mentary, Mr. Chairman. Since there is an experiment on Hong Kong Island, where hawker control is combining the efforts of both General Duties Team and the Hawker Control Force, how soon is it estimated by the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that the result of this experiment will be known, and when will it be possible to consider expanding the experiment both on the island and in Kowloon for a strong presence on the ground? CHAIRMAN (in English):-The Chairman will accept that question for the next month's meeting. (Laughter) DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, Dr. Hu said that because the number of work force has increased, so the number of hawkers decreased. Can I ask the Chairman of the Com- mittee if his Committee, during our recession periods, use the policy of unlicensed hawkers as a means of solving the unemployment problem? DR. HU (in English):-That is a controversial issue, and it has not been clearly decided by our Select Committee. So I really cannot answer that question. DR. HUANG (in Cantonese): -In Dr. Hu's opinion, is the decrease in the number of unlicensed hawkers due to the fact that they have got other jobs or because of the work of the General Duties Teams and Hawker Control Forces?

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Page 117 of 135

196

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English): -Mr. Chairman, could the Chair- man of the Select Committee clarify one point? At one time, and not too recently, the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers was nearly equal or even more than the number of licensed hawkers. Could we be given a reason why the estimated number of unlicensed hawkers, which he has now stated as 11,266, has dropped so sharply from the original estimate of an equal number of unlicensed as against licensed?

DR. HU (in English):-Of course, when business was not very good in Hong Kong, there were a lot of unlicensed hawkers. But since business became better, there are less unlicensed hawkers. This figure, 11,266 was obtained after the Department made a very careful estimate and investigation. I did say in my Annual Speech in this Council that the figure is more or less the same as it is now in answering Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's question.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Am I assuming correctly that the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers in the urban areas is in the region of about 44,000—45,000?

DR. HU (in English):-Yes, the total number of both licensed and unlicensed hawkers is more or less about 45,000.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Does that mean, speaking in round figures, that there has been a considerable drop from the original estimate made not too long ago, 18 months to 2 years, that the drop has been from over 80,000 to about 44,000?

DR. HU (in English):-The original estimate, was not, of course, as high as 80,000, it might have been about 60,000 to 75,000. It has dropped to 45,000. That, I may say, is to show the right direction of our hawker policy.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 117 of 135

197

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Does that include the number of hawkers who are in the Housing Authority estates in urban areas?

DR. HU (in English):-Licensed hawkers, yes, because we are still the licensing authority for issuing licences to hawkers in Housing Authority estates. I understand that it probably also includes the unlicensed hawkers in housing estates. As Mr. CHEONG-LEEN probably knows that nowadays there are less unlicensed hawkers in housing estates.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Is it correct to say that, at present in the precincts of housing estates, that is areas which are under the control of Housing Authority, all hawkers do not have licences?

DR. HU (in English):-I think that in housing estates, the hawkers trading there are still in need of a licence.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-May I ask the final supple- mentary, Mr. Chairman. Since there is an experiment on Hong Kong Island, where hawker control is combining the efforts of both General Duties Team and the Hawker Control Force, how soon is it estimated by the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that the result of this experiment will be known, and when will it be possible to consider expanding the experiment both on the island and in Kowloon for a strong presence on the ground?

CHAIRMAN (in English):-The Chairman will accept that question for the next month's meeting. (Laughter)

DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, Dr. Hu said that because the number of work force has increased, so the number of hawkers decreased. Can I ask the Chairman of the Com- mittee if his Committee, during our recession periods, use the policy of unlicensed hawkers as a means of solving the unemployment problem?

DR. HU (in English):-That is a controversial issue, and it has not been clearly decided by our Select Committee. So I really cannot answer that question.

1976 — Page 117

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