1974 — Page 46

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

out and inserts other words. So, if it is really your intention that Mr. BERNACCHI's motion be entirely excised, then you have to vote against it. You can't amend it to negative the original motion.

MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-Mr. Chairman. I am sorry, I am not changing it to negative the original motion, I am merely suggesting that all the words, except the first, be deleted and the words that I read out be inserted. The word "that" may be retained. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN (in English):-That, I accept as completely negativing Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. (Laughter). So, in fairness to Mr. BERNACCHI, may I suggest you propose that the matter be dealt with under Standing Order 20, Section 16(j) where you can refer his motion to the Libraries Select Committee, if it is your wish, or to the Standing Committee? Would you please clarify your intention?

MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-By all means, I would like to comply with suggestions from the chair.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-No. The Chairman is not suggesting. (Laughter). The Chairman is merely trying to sort out a very difficult situation whereby Mr. BERNACCHI is only left with the word “that”. (Laughter). You accept that procedure, then, would you so move?

MR. LO TAK-SING (in English):-Yes.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-Thank you. Before I give the floor to Dr. Denny HUANG, is there a seconder for the motion to be referred or to be committed? Which Committee do you want, the Libraries Select Committee, or the Standing Committee of the Whole Council?

MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-As Mr. BERNACCHI himself is not a Member of the Libraries Select Committee, I think it would be fair to refer to Standing Committee.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-Seconded by Miss Ko. Now, Dr. Denny HUANG has the floor.

DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman. You just try to help Mr. Lo to solve this difficult situation. I feel that not only is Mr. BERNACCHI and the Libraries Select Committee concerned about our students lacking suitable rooms to study, but all Urban Councillors are very concerned about it. In the past, the Libraries Select Committee once took the lead and supplied a lot of study rooms for school children and with very good results. I know that the

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 46 of 187

Education Department is also supplying these rooms, but if we are to extend this service to cover all urban areas, then I feel that we ought to clarify our responsibility. Is this the duty of the Education Department or the Urban Services Department and secondly, about our funds. As I see it, if the Education Department can pay for it and we manage these rooms for them, then this is very welcome because we feel that we can do a better job. But if the Urban Council has to pay for expenses to provide so many rooms, then, perhaps, we could run into difficulty. So my proposal is that this motion should be referred to our Libraries Select Committee and the Committee should liaise with the Education Department to sort out the question of funds and management. In other words, I feel that this should be referred to the Select Committee.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-There's already one closure motion. So that closure motion comes first. If it is defeated, then we go on to yours. You see, it is under consideration: to refer it to Standing Committee of the Whole Council. That has been seconded. If it is defeated later on, then we would take yours: to refer it to the Libraries Select Committee. But, the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, in its deliberation, could very well refer it to the Libraries Select Committee too, or consult the Libraries Select Committee. So now the next speaker, as far as I recall, is Mrs. ELLIOTT.

MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman. What I was going to say has been said in great part by Mr. T. S. Lo, but I think some points can still be repeated. I think I ought to declare an interest in this motion since the matter has been receiving the attention of the Urban Council Libraries Select Committee at a great number of meetings. It is our policy that whenever we set up a new library, we always set aside 2,000 sq. ft. of study space for students to do their private studies and all but one of these is air-conditioned. We are now in the process of carrying out this policy in every district library. We have long felt that this is the responsibility of the Central Government in general, and of the Education Department in particular, since libraries are a specific service to the public in general whilst space for study is the responsibility of the Government which has provided public housing at the density which does not permit students to find quietness in their own homes for private study. The Urban Council set the ball rolling with the first special study room in Kowloon Park. The Education Department agreed to follow suit with their own study room, also a pilot scheme. The first Government study room opened in September 1973, and although the Ward Councillor for Chai Wan may not be aware of it, (Laughter) this study room was set up in his own ward.

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60 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL out and inserts other words. So, if it is really your intention that Mr. BERNACCHI's motion be entirely excised, then you have to vote against it. You can't amend it to negative the original motion. MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-Mr. Chairman. I am sorry, I am not changing it to negative the original motion, I am merely suggesting that all the words, except the first, be deleted and the words that I read out be inserted. The word "that" may be retained. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN (in English):-That, I accept as completely negativing Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. (Laughter). So, in fairness to Mr. BERNACCHI, may I suggest you propose that the matter be dealt with under Standing Order 20, Section 16(j) where you can refer his motion to the Libraries Select Committee, if it is your wish, or to the Standing Committee? Would you please clarify your intention? MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-By all means, I would like to comply with suggestions from the chair. CHAIRMAN (in English):-No. The Chairman is not suggesting. (Laughter). The Chairman is merely trying to sort out a very difficult situation whereby Mr. BERNACCHI is only left with the word “that”. (Laughter). You accept that procedure, then, would you so move? MR. LO TAK-SING (in English):-Yes. CHAIRMAN (in English):-Thank you. Before I give the floor to Dr. Denny HUANG, is there a seconder for the motion to be referred or to be committed? Which Committee do you want, the Libraries Select Committee, or the Standing Committee of the Whole Council? MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-As Mr. BERNACCHI himself is not a Member of the Libraries Select Committee, I think it would be fair to refer to Standing Committee. CHAIRMAN (in English):-Seconded by Miss Ko. Now, Dr. Denny HUANG has the floor. DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman. You just try to help Mr. Lo to solve this difficult situation. I feel that not only is Mr. BERNACCHI and the Libraries Select Committee concerned about our students lacking suitable rooms to study, but all Urban Councillors are very concerned about it. In the past, the Libraries Select Committee once took the lead and supplied a lot of study rooms for school children and with very good results. I know that the HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 46 of 187 61 Education Department is also supplying these rooms, but if we are to extend this service to cover all urban areas, then I feel that we ought to clarify our responsibility. Is this the duty of the Education Department or the Urban Services Department and secondly, about our funds. As I see it, if the Education Department can pay for it and we manage these rooms for them, then this is very welcome because we feel that we can do a better job. But if the Urban Council has to pay for expenses to provide so many rooms, then, perhaps, we could run into difficulty. So my proposal is that this motion should be referred to our Libraries Select Committee and the Committee should liaise with the Education Department to sort out the question of funds and management. In other words, I feel that this should be referred to the Select Committee. CHAIRMAN (in English):-There's already one closure motion. So that closure motion comes first. If it is defeated, then we go on to yours. You see, it is under consideration: to refer it to Standing Committee of the Whole Council. That has been seconded. If it is defeated later on, then we would take yours: to refer it to the Libraries Select Committee. But, the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, in its deliberation, could very well refer it to the Libraries Select Committee too, or consult the Libraries Select Committee. So now the next speaker, as far as I recall, is Mrs. ELLIOTT. MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman. What I was going to say has been said in great part by Mr. T. S. Lo, but I think some points can still be repeated. I think I ought to declare an interest in this motion since the matter has been receiving the attention of the Urban Council Libraries Select Committee at a great number of meetings. It is our policy that whenever we set up a new library, we always set aside 2,000 sq. ft. of study space for students to do their private studies and all but one of these is air-conditioned. We are now in the process of carrying out this policy in every district library. We have long felt that this is the responsibility of the Central Government in general, and of the Education Department in particular, since libraries are a specific service to the public in general whilst space for study is the responsibility of the Government which has provided public housing at the density which does not permit students to find quietness in their own homes for private study. The Urban Council set the ball rolling with the first special study room in Kowloon Park. The Education Department agreed to follow suit with their own study room, also a pilot scheme. The first Government study room opened in September 1973, and although the Ward Councillor for Chai Wan may not be aware of it, (Laughter) this study room was set up in his own ward.

Baseline (Original)

60 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL out and inserts other words. So, if it is really your intention that Mr. BERNACCHI's motion be entirely excised, then you have to vote against it. You can't amend it to negative the original motion. MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-Mr. Chairman. I am sorry, I am not changing it to negative the original motion, I am merely sug- gesting that all the words, except the first, be deleted and the words that I read out be inserted. The word "that" may be retained. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN (in English):-That, I accept as completely negativing Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. (Laughter). So, in fairness to Mr. BERNACCHI, may I suggest you propose that the matter be dealt with under Standing Order 20, Section 16(j) where you can refer his motion to the Libraries Select Committee, if it is your wish, or to the Standing Committee? Would you please clarify your intention? MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-By all means, I would like to comply with suggestions from the chair. CHAIRMAN (in English):-No. The Chairman is not suggesting. (Laughter). The Chairman is merely trying to sort out a very difficult situation whereby Mr. BERNACCHI is only left with the word “that”. (Laughter). You accept that procedure, then, would you so move? MR. LO TAK-SING (in English):----Yes. CHAIRMAN (in English):-Thank you. Before I give the floor to Dr. Denny HUANG, is there a seconder for the motion to be referred or to be committed? Which Committee do you want, the Libraries Select Committee, or the Standing Committee of the Whole Council? MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-As Mr. BERNACCHI himself is not a Member of the Libraries Select Commitee, I think it would be fair to refer to Standing Committee. CHAIRMAN (in English): -Seconded by Miss Ko. Now, Dr. Denny HUANG has the floor. DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman. You just try to help Mr. Lo to solve this difficult situation. I feel that not only is Mr. BERNACCHI and the Libraries Select Committee concerned about our students lacking suitable rooms to study, but all Urban Councillors are very concerned about it. In the past, the Libraries Select Committee once took the lead and supplied a lot of study rooms for school children and with very good results. I know that the HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Page 46 of 187 61 Education Department is also supplying these rooms, but if we are to extend this service to cover all urban areas, then I feel that we ought to clarify our responsibility. Is this the duty of the Education Depart- ment or the Urban Services Department and secondly, about our funds. As I see it, if the Education Department can pay for it and we manage these rooms for them, then this is very welcome because we feel that we can do a better job. But if the Urban Council has to pay for expenses to provide so many rooms, then, perhaps, we could run into difficulty. So my proposal is that this motion should be referred to our Libraries Select Committee and the Committee should liaise with the Education Department to sort out the question of funds and management. In other words, I feel that this should be referred to the Select Committee. CHAIRMAN (in English):-There's already one closure motion. So that closure motion comes first. If it is defeated, then we go on to yours. You see, it is under consideration: to refer it to Standing Committee of the Whole Council. That has been seconded. If it is defeated later on, then we would take yours: to refer it to the Libraries Select Committee. But, the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, in its deliberation, could very well refer it to the Libraries Select Committee too, or consult the Libraries Select Committee. So now the next speaker, as far as I recall, is Mrs. ELLIOTT. MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman. What I was going to say has been said in great part by Mr. T. S. Lo, but I think some points can still be repeated. I think I ought to declare an interest in this motion since the matter has been receiving the attention of the Urban Council Libraries Select Committee at a great number of meet- ings. It is our policy that whenever we set up a new library, we always set aside 2,000 sq. ft. of study space for students to do their private studies and all but one of these is air-conditioned. We are now in the process of carrying out this policy in every district library. We have long felt that this is the responsibility of the Central Government in general, and of the Education Department in particular, since libraries are a specific service to the public in general whilst space for study is the responsibility of the Government which has provided public housing at the density which does not permit students to find quietness in their own homes for private study. The Urban Council set the ball rolling with the first special study room in Kowloon Park. The Education Department agreed to follow suit with their own study room, also a pilot scheme. The first Government study room opened in September 1973, and although the Ward Councillor for Chai Wan may not be aware of it, (Laughter) this study room was set up in his own ward.

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

out and inserts other words. So, if it is really your intention that Mr. BERNACCHI's motion be entirely excised, then you have to vote against it. You can't amend it to negative the original motion.

MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-Mr. Chairman. I am sorry, I am not changing it to negative the original motion, I am merely sug- gesting that all the words, except the first, be deleted and the words that I read out be inserted. The word "that" may be retained. (Laughter).

MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-By all means, I would like to comply with suggestions from the chair.

MR. LO TAK-SING (in English):----Yes.

MR. LO TAK-SHING (in English):-As Mr. BERNACCHI himself is not a Member of the Libraries Select Commitee, I think it would be fair to refer to Standing Committee.

CHAIRMAN (in English): -Seconded by Miss Ko. Now, Dr. Denny HUANG has the floor.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Page 46 of 187

Education Department is also supplying these rooms, but if we are to extend this service to cover all urban areas, then I feel that we ought to clarify our responsibility. Is this the duty of the Education Depart- ment or the Urban Services Department and secondly, about our funds. As I see it, if the Education Department can pay for it and we manage these rooms for them, then this is very welcome because we feel that we can do a better job. But if the Urban Council has to pay for expenses to provide so many rooms, then, perhaps, we could run into difficulty. So my proposal is that this motion should be referred to our Libraries Select Committee and the Committee should liaise with the Education Department to sort out the question of funds and management. In other words, I feel that this should be referred to the Select Committee.

MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman. What I was going to say has been said in great part by Mr. T. S. Lo, but I think some points can still be repeated. I think I ought to declare an interest in this motion since the matter has been receiving the attention of the Urban Council Libraries Select Committee at a great number of meet- ings. It is our policy that whenever we set up a new library, we always set aside 2,000 sq. ft. of study space for students to do their private studies and all but one of these is air-conditioned. We are now in the process of carrying out this policy in every district library. We have long felt that this is the responsibility of the Central Government in general, and of the Education Department in particular, since libraries are a specific service to the public in general whilst space for study is the responsibility of the Government which has provided public housing at the density which does not permit students to find quietness in their own homes for private study. The Urban Council set the ball rolling with the first special study room in Kowloon Park. The Education Department agreed to follow suit with their own study room, also a pilot scheme. The first Government study room opened in September 1973, and although the Ward Councillor for Chai Wan may not be aware of it, (Laughter) this study room was set up in his own ward.

1974 — Page 46

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