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provide and make recommendations thereon to the Director. In view of this I cannot explain why the report cannot be shown to Urban Councillors. The Director of Urban Services has agreed to let me and the Chairman, Urban Council see the report and it may be that I could give an explanation after seeing it.
(e) As I explained at our last meeting Urban Councillors could not safely attend an enquiry of this nature because there is no legal machinery for it.
MR. NG (In English):—Mr. Chairman, thank you for such a comprehensive answer to my question. In view of the fact that the Urban Councillors' names are very intimately connected with the City Hall and incidents like this involving the staff, we are naturally interested. Can you make an endeavour to ask the Director of Urban Services to explain to us why he has no intention to show us the report? It appears from this answer that the Urban Councillors are paying for the pipers and cannot call the tune.
MR. Lo (In English):-The first question I think is whether I could ask the Director of Urban Services for the reason why the report cannot be published. I can certainly do that, Mr. Chairman, but I am not at all sure I can get a reply. As to your second point about paying the piper and not calling the tune, Mr. Chairman, I recall mentioning this in Council when the white paper was under debate and I pointed this out at that time before it became law.
MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, in the last sentence of para. (d), Mr. Lo said the Director of Urban Services has agreed to give a report to him and to you, Mr. Chairman, and then you may give an explanation. I would like to ask Mr. Chairman and Mr. Lo, have you got the report yet?
MR. LO (In English):-Speaking for myself "no".
CHAIRMAN (In English):-Speaking for the Chairman of the Urban Council, likewise "no". (Laughter).
MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese):-Then, may I ask the two chairmen has the Director of Urban Services confirmed when he will give you the report?
MR. LO (In English): -Perhaps this time I might even speak for the Chairman, Urban Council, and say "no".
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MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese): --Could you tell us whether you intend to ask the Director of Urban Services or the Colonial Secretary about when would they give you the report, and if they give you the report would you show the report to the Councillors as colleagues, because this is a very important thing?
MR. Lo (In English):-I have asked a number of times when the report would be ready. I have not yet asked how long it will be before it is ready. I could have asked and, in the same way as I replied earlier to Mr. P. K. NG, I am naturally not at all sure of getting an answer. On the second question as to after getting the report if I could show it to everybody, if the report is shown to me in a confidential way, obviously, I cannot.
MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese):-If the report is shown to you as confidential then all our papers in the Council are given as confidential. But it does not mean that one Member cannot show it to other Members of the Council. I would like clarification from either Mr. Lo or Mr. Chairman.
MR. LO (In English):-If Mr. CHAN means that I should not accept it on a basis of confidentiality, I would be glad not to do so, if this is the wish of Members. But if, on the other hand, you wish me to look at it and perhaps give an explanation why it could not be published, I would be glad to do that. Perhaps I may leave the matter to Members in due course.
MR. MACKENZIE (In English):-Mr. Chairman, I have two questions. The first, if the report is not to be published, is there any indication that at least a statement will be published in the public interest?
MR. LO (In English):-A statement by me; Mr. MACKENZIE? Or a statement by the Director of Urban Services?
MR. MACKENZIE (In English):-As Mr. Lo has no information, a statement by him would be useless, I believe. A statement by the Director of Urban Services.
MR. Lo (In English):-In which event, I don't really know why Mr. MACKENZIE asked me that question.
CHAIRMAN (In English):-Your second supplementary?
MR. MACKENZIE (In English):-I take it Mr. Lo has no information. (Laughter). Mr. Chairman, I think this matter brings out an
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provide and make recommendations thereon to the Director. In view of this I cannot explain why the report cannot be shown to Urban Councillors. The Director of Urban Services has agreed to let me and the Chairman, Urban Council see the report and it may be that I could give an explanation after see ing it.
(e) As I explained at our last meeting Urban Councillors could not safely attend an enquiry of this nature because there is no legal machinery for it.
MR. NG (In English):—Mr. Chairman, thank you for such a com. prehensive answer to my question. In view of the fact that the Urban Councillors' names are very intimately connected with the City Hall and incidents like this involving the staff, we are naturally interested. Can you make an endeavour to ask the Director of Urban Services to explain to us why he has no intention to show us the report? It appears from this answer that the Urban Councillors are paying for the pipers and cannot call the tune.
MR. Lo (In English):-The first question I think is whether I could ask the Director of Urban Services for the reason why the report cannot be published. I can certainly do that, Mr. Chairman, but I am not at all sure I can get a reply. As to your second point about paying the piper and not calling the tune, Mr. Chairman, I recall mentioning this in Council when the white paper was under debate and I pointed this out at that time before it became law.
MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, in the last sen- tence of para. (d), Mr. Lo said the Director of Urban Services has agreed to give a report to him and to you, Mr. Chairman, and then you may give an explanation. I would like to ask Mr. Chairman and Mr. Lo, have you got the report yet?
MR. LO (In English):-Speaking for myself "no".
CHAIRMAN (In English):-Speaking for the Chairman of the Urban Council, likewise "no". (Laughter).
MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese):-Then, may I ask the two chair- men has the Director of Urban Services confirmed when he will give you the report?
MR. LO (In English): -Perhaps this time I might even speak for the Chairman, Urban Council, and say "no".
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MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese): --Could you tell us whether you intend to ask the Director of Urban Services or the Colonial Secretary about when would they give you the report, and if they give you the report would you show the report to the Councillors as colleagues, because this is a very important thing?
MR. Lo (In English):-I have asked a number of times when the report would be ready. I have not yet asked how long it will be before it is ready. I could have asked and, in the same way as I replied earlier to Mr. P. K. NG, I am naturally not at all sure of getting an answer. On the second question as to after getting the report if I could show it to everybody, if the report is shown to me in a confidential way, obviously,
I cannot.
MR. C. K. CHAN (In Cantonese):-If the report is shown to you as confidential then all our papers in the Council are given as confidential. But it does not mean that one Member cannot show it to other Members of the Council. I would like clarification from either Mr. Lo or Mr. Chairman.
MR. LO (In English):-If Mr. CHAN means that I should not accept it on a basis of confidentiality, I would be glad not to do so, if this is the wish of Members. But if, on the other hand, you wish me to look at it and perhaps give an explanation why it could not be published, I would be glad to do that. Perhaps I may leave the matter to Members in due course.
MR. MACKENZIE (In English):-Mr. Chairman, I have two questions. The first, if the report is not to be published, is there any indication that at least a statement will be published in the public interest?
MR. LO (In English):-A statement by me; Mr. MACKENZIE? Or a statement by the Director of Urban Services?
MR. MACKENZIE (In English):-As Mr. Lo has no information, a statement by him would be useless, I believe. A statement by the Director of Urban Services.
MR. Lo (In English):-In which event, I don't really know why Mr. MACKENZIE asked me that question.
CHAIRMAN (In English):-Your second supplementary?
MR. MACKENZIE (In English):-I take it Mr. Lo has no informa- tion. (Laughter). Mr. Chairman, I think this matter brings out an
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