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The new by-laws will be enforced largely by the Urban Services Cleansing Division, of which the new Litter Wardens and their anti-litter squads are part. It is essential to the success of the forthcoming campaign that the staff be properly and continuously instructed in the proper enforcement of the new laws, and I am reliably informed that this has already been done.
This Council is charged with the task of getting Hong Kong clean and keeping it clean, so let us show the world that we are fully alive and aware of our responsibility. I am assured the Department will have all the new resources necessary to make this Campaign a success, and more important, the ability to follow up with a sustained effort in the future. Let us keep the Department up to its task by backing it so that everyone, belongers, visitors, the lot, will again take pride in walking our streets, back as well as front, and no longer fearful of being crowned by an unmentionable flying object.
Mr. Chairman I second the Motion wholeheartedly.
MR. HENRY H.L. HU:- Mr. Chairman, for one reason or another I only came to know that this by-law would be publicly debated today, so I haven't prepared a speech. As Mr. FORSGATE said, it is indeed a compromise as, Mr. Chairman, you yourself and many Members know that I expressed very strong views in Select Committee concerning the encroachment of personal liberty in carrying out our "Clean Hong Kong" campaign. We have various means to carry out our campaign and to introduce, for example, paragraph 5 of this by-law means that certain people will suffer unduly because of the inequality of the living conditions in this place. I would therefore give warning to the Members who enforce this by-law to be very careful and very fair. At the same time, although I wholeheartedly support the "Keep Hong Kong Clean" campaign, I have certain reservations concerning section 5 of the by-law. Therefore, today I will abstain from voting. Mr. Chairman, this is what I would like to say in public.
MR. HILTON CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I would like to support the Motion, but unlike my colleague, Mr. Hu, I support the Motion unreservedly. At the same time, I would admit that there is a need for caution on the part of those who are responsible for exercising by-law 5. So much depends on Government providing enough resources, such as trucks and also the manpower to clear the litter dumps daily at the proper hours.
During the visits which Members of the Health Education Select Committee have carried out in many districts, we did think of this particular by-law 5 and it is possible that a certain amount of hardship could be caused to shopkeepers, or to other members of the public if this particular by-law is not enforced with due caution and care. I realize the amount of discussion which has gone on within the relevant Select Committee before this by-law was agreed upon. At the same time, I am sure that as the campaign gets under way we will through practical application be able to hit upon the right point of implementation in seeing that our streets are kept clean and, at the same time, ensuring that a minimum amount of hardship is imposed upon shopkeepers and others upon whom this by-law may have an effect.
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MRS. E. ELLIOTT:-- Mr. Chairman, I am very, very sorry that I can only give my limited support to this Motion, because I really do want to support it, but I have always spoken up as Chairman of the Health Education Select Committee that the liability clause could not only be unfair but it is uneducational. Now, as someone mentioned flying objects—I was almost hit myself this morning by a flying object, a very dangerous tin, which fell from an upstairs room in a resettlement block. If the tin had hit me and cut my head, I should also have been liable because I don't know who threw it—I should have been liable for having to sweep it up too. I know that the ground floor tenants are not usually the ones who make the mess on the ground floor, and yet they are the ones who are going to be liable to sweep it up.
Now, I understand that according to this liability clause, the ground floor tenant is going to be responsible unless he can prove that somebody else did it. I believe this is uneducational, and I believe that we should find some way of making every tenant of the block take turns in being responsible for seeing that the ground floor is clean and not just leave it to the poor ground floor tenant who probably isn't responsible for making the mess. Therefore, I can give only limited support, with the objection against this clause.
CHAIRMAN: Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR. A. de O. SALES: - Mr. Chairman, before the Chairman of the Select Committee exercises his right to reply, might I say this—that there are reservations both in this Council and outside about this particular principle on which Mr. Henry Hu has spoken so eloquently. All of us realize that Hong Kong has reached the point of desperation and that a drastic approach has to be taken in order to clean up Hong Kong. It is not a question of keeping Hong Kong clean, but a question of cleaning up Hong Kong. Now, I support the Select Committee in its desire to do a thorough job and, for this reason, although I have told Dr. HUANG in private my reservation about this particular principle, nevertheless I am prepared to endorse the approach of the Select Committee. I would still like Dr. HUANG to add to such reply as he might wish to give Council the assurance that this particular point will be watched very carefully by his Select Committee. If it should work inequitably then the Select Committee
Page 86 of 206
Page 86 of 206
152
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The new by-laws will be enforced largely by the Urban Services Cleansing Division, of which the new Litter Wardens and their anti- litter squads are part. It is essential to the success of the forthcoming campaign that the staff be properly and continuously instructed in the proper enforcement of the new laws, and I am reliably informed that this has already been done.
This Council is charged with the task of getting Hong Kong clean and keeping it clean, so let us show the world that we are fully alive and aware of our responsibility. I am assured the Department will have all the new resources necessary to make this Campaign a success, and more important, the ability to follow up with a sustained effort in the future. Let us keep the Department up to its task by backing it so that everyone, belongers, visitors, the lot, will again take pride in walking our streets, back as well as front, and no longer fearful of being crowned by an unmentionable flying object.
Mr. Chairman I second the Motion wholeheartedly.
up,
MR. HENRY H .L. HU:-Mr. Chairman, for one reason or another I only came to know that this by-law would be publicly debated today, so I haven't prepared a speech. As Mr. FORSGATE said, it is indeed a compromise as, Mr. Chairman, you yourself and many Members know that I expressed very strong views in Select Committee concerning the encroachment of personal liberty in carrying out our "Clean Hong Kong" campaign. We have various means to carry out our campaign and to introduce, for example, paragraph 5 of this by-law means that certain people will suffer unduly because of the inequality of the living conditions in this place. I would therefore give warning to the Members who enforce this by-law to be very careful and very fair. At the same time, although I wholeheartedly support the "Keep Hong Kong Clean" campaign, I have certain reservations concerning section 5 of the by-law. Therefore, today I will abstain from voting. Mr. Chairman, this is what I would like to say in public.
MR. HILTON CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I would like to support the Motion, but unlike my colleague, Mr. Hu, I support the Motion unreservedly. At the same time. I would admit that there is a need for caution on the part of those who are responsible for exercis- ing by-law 5. So much depends on Government providing enough resources, such as trucks and also the manpower to clear the litter dumps daily at the proper hours.
During the visits which Members of the Health Education Select Committee have carried out in many districts, we did think of this particular by-law 5 and it is possible that a certain amount of hardship could be caused to shopkeepers, or to other members of the public if this particular by-law is not enforced with due caution and care. I
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
153
realize the amount of discussion which has gone on within the relevant Select Committee before this by-law was agreed upon. At the same time, I am sure that as the campaign gets under way we will through practical application be able to hit upon the right point of implementa- tion in seeing that our streets are kept clean and, at the same time, ensuring that a minimum amount of hardship is imposed upon shop- keepers and others upon whom this by-law may have an effect.
MRS. E. ELLIOTT:--Mr. Chairman, I am very, very sorry that I can only give my limited support to this Motion, because I really do want to support it, but I have always spoken up as Chairman of the Health Education Select Committee that the liability clause could not only be unfair but it is uneducational. Now, as someone mentioned flying objects—I was almost hit myself this morning by a flying object, a very dangerous tin, which fell from an upstairs room in a resettle- ment block. If the tin had hit me and cut my head, I should also have been liable because I don't know who threw it-I should have been liable for having to sweep it up too. I know that the ground floor tenants are not usually the ones who make the mess on the ground floor, and yet they are the ones who are going to be liable to sweep it up.
Now, I understand that according to this liability clause, the ground floor tenant is going to be responsible unless he can prove that somebody else did it. I believe this is uneducational, and I believe that we should find some way of making every tenant of the block take turns in being responsible for seeing that the ground floor is clean and not just leave it to the poor ground floor tenant who probably isn't responsible for making the mess. Therefore, I can give only limited support, with the objection against this clause.
CHAIRMAN: Does any other Member wish to speak?
MR. A. de O. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, before the Chairman of the Select Committee exercises his right to reply, might I say this—that there are reservations both in this Council and outside about this particular principle on which Mr. Henry Hu has spoken so eloquently. All of us realize that Hong Kong has reached the point of desperation and that a drastic approach has to be taken in order to clean up Hong Kong. It is not a question of keeping Hong Kong clean, but a question of cleaning up Hong Kong. Now, I support the Select Committee in its desire to do a thorough job and, for this reason, although I have told Dr. HUANG in private my reservation about this particular principle, nevertheless I am prepared to endorse the approach of the Select Committee. I would still like Dr. HUANG to add to such reply as he might wish to give Council the assurance that this particular point will be watched very carefully by his Select Committee. If it should work inequitably then the Select Committee
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