1972 — Page 200

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed
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378

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

379

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not as far as I am aware, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES (In English):-I thought so, Mr. Chairman. I thought this suggestion came from the Unofficial Members.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, could I ask you when will the two regional assistant directors be appointed?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-As soon as I have more staff to support them, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, will it be before the pilot project in the Central District is established?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not at all.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask whether the department has considered setting up two pilot projects at the same time: one on the Island, which is Central as you mentioned, and another in Kowloon, which has a much larger population and which, from the point of view of the Urban Services Department and this Council, is equally, if not more important, than the Island?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-No, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Why wasn't it considered, Mr. Chairman?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Because one pilot project is sufficient, we hope, to bring out all the snags.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Is Central District representing the whole of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-It is representative as any, I think, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. As I said the problem is the question of supervision.

MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that I recommended to you the creation of three regional offices to start off with, and eventually five in accordance with the ten urban districts?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-I remember the three, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES (In English):-It has been made known to you in writing, and is also part of my speech at the Annual Debate. I would like to suggest that serious consideration be given to setting up the third regional office so that Kowloon may have two in order to be responsible for six urban districts, and Hong Kong Island one regional office to start off for four urban districts and eventually, as I suggested, there might be consideration for an additional regional office.

CHAIRMAN (In English):-I accept what you say, Mr. SALES. This can be considered, but I have problems in finding staff for two regions I will have even more problems in finding staff for three or more.

MR. SALES (In English):-Is this perhaps not due to the fact that, in the engagement of staff, Government has been notoriously short-sighted and not planning well in advance?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Your question is out of order, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES (In English):-It always is out of order, Mr. Chairman, when it touches on a very sore point.

CHAIRMAN (In English):-By way of clarification, ladies and gentlemen, the whole impetus for this re-organization came from this department and this Council. The Secretariat is in no way involved in the way Mr. SALES suggests.

MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, the word "Secretariat" didn't arise at all. I would ask you to check the record. It never even crossed my mind that the Secretariat was involved.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, can I confirm that, from what you have said so far, you are very pessimistic that the department can recruit the right quality and the sufficient number of staff to implement this re-organization during the coming months, particularly before you plan to leave?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-I am not too hopeful about this project, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. But I would like to think that by autumn we should have made a move in that direction.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Just a move, Mr. Chairman?

MR. SALES (In English):-Sir, on a serious note, do I have your assurance that the setting up of these regional offices does not in any way mean that, in the opinion of the department, it is not necessary eventually to have Select Committees or other Working Committees set up by the Council to oversee the regions?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, would you care to answer for Government. What is the point of giving this Council a measure

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206 378 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 379 CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not as far as I am aware, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES (In English):-I thought so, Mr. Chairman. I thought this suggestion came from the Unofficial Members. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, could I ask you when will the two regional assistant directors be appointed? CHAIRMAN (In English):-As soon as I have more staff to support them, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, will it be before the pilot project in the Central District is established? CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not at all. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask whether the department has considered setting up two pilot projects at the same time: one on the Island, which is Central as you mentioned, and another in Kowloon, which has a much larger population and which, from the point of view of the Urban Services Department and this Council, is equally, if not more important, than the Island? CHAIRMAN (In English):-No, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Why wasn't it considered, Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN (In English):-Because one pilot project is sufficient, we hope, to bring out all the snags. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Is Central District representing the whole of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon? CHAIRMAN (In English):-It is representative as any, I think, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. As I said the problem is the question of supervision. MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that I recommended to you the creation of three regional offices to start off with, and eventually five in accordance with the ten urban districts? CHAIRMAN (In English):-I remember the three, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES (In English):-It has been made known to you in writing, and is also part of my speech at the Annual Debate. I would like to suggest that serious consideration be given to setting up the third regional office so that Kowloon may have two in order to be responsible for six urban districts, and Hong Kong Island one regional office to start off for four urban districts and eventually, as I suggested, there might be consideration for an additional regional office. CHAIRMAN (In English):-I accept what you say, Mr. SALES. This can be considered, but I have problems in finding staff for two regions I will have even more problems in finding staff for three or more. MR. SALES (In English):-Is this perhaps not due to the fact that, in the engagement of staff, Government has been notoriously short-sighted and not planning well in advance? CHAIRMAN (In English):-Your question is out of order, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES (In English):-It always is out of order, Mr. Chairman, when it touches on a very sore point. CHAIRMAN (In English):-By way of clarification, ladies and gentlemen, the whole impetus for this re-organization came from this department and this Council. The Secretariat is in no way involved in the way Mr. SALES suggests. MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, the word "Secretariat" didn't arise at all. I would ask you to check the record. It never even crossed my mind that the Secretariat was involved. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, can I confirm that, from what you have said so far, you are very pessimistic that the department can recruit the right quality and the sufficient number of staff to implement this re-organization during the coming months, particularly before you plan to leave? CHAIRMAN (In English):-I am not too hopeful about this project, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. But I would like to think that by autumn we should have made a move in that direction. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Just a move, Mr. Chairman? MR. SALES (In English):-Sir, on a serious note, do I have your assurance that the setting up of these regional offices does not in any way mean that, in the opinion of the department, it is not necessary eventually to have Select Committees or other Working Committees set up by the Council to oversee the regions? MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, would you care to answer for Government. What is the point of giving this Council a measure Page 200 of 206 Page 200 Page 201
Baseline (Original)
206 378 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 379 CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not as far as I am aware, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES (In English):-I thought so, Mr. Chairman. I thought this suggestion came from the Unofficial Members. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):--Mr. Chairman, could I ask you when will the two regional assistant directors be appointed? CHAIRMAN (In English):-As soon as I have more staff to support them, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, will it be before the pilot project in the Central District is established? CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not at all. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask whether the department has considered setting up two pilot projects at the same time: one on the Island, which is Central as you men- tioned, and another in Kowloon, which has a much larger population and which, from the point of view of the Urban Services Department and this Council, is equally, if not more important, than the Island? CHAIRMAN (In English):-No, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English): -Why wasn't it considered, Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN (In English):-Because one pilot project is sufficient, we hope, to bring out all the snags. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Is Central District representing the whole of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon? CHAIRMAN (In English):--It is representative as any, I think, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. As I said the problem is the question of supervision. MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that I recommended to you the creation of three regional offices to start off with, and eventually five in accordance with the ten urban districts? CHAIRMAN (In English):-I remember the three, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES (In English):-It has been made known to you in writing, and is also part of my speech at the Annual Debate. I would like to suggest that serious consideration be given to setting up the third regional office so that Kowloon may have two in order to be 1 responsible for six urban districts, and Hong Kong Island one regional office to start off for four urban districts and eventually, as I suggested, there might be consideration for an additional regional office. CHAIRMAN (In English):-I accept what you say, Mr. SALES. This can be considered, but I have problems in finding staff for two regions I will have even more problems in finding staff for three or more. MR. SALES (In English): -Is this perhaps not due to the fact that, in the engagement of staff, Government has been notoriously short- sighted and not planning well in advance? CHAIRMAN (In English): -Your question is out of order, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES (In English):—It always is out of order, Mr. Chairman, when it touches on a very sore point. CHAIRMAN (In English):-By way of clarification, ladies and gentlemen, the whole impetus for this re-organization came from this department and this Council. The Secretariat is in no way involved in the way Mr. SALES suggests. MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, the word "Secretariat" didn't arise at all. I would ask you to check the record. It never even crossed my mind that the Secretariat was involved. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, can I confirm that, from what you have said so far, you are very pessimistic that the department can recruit the right quality and the sufficient number of staff to implement this re-organization during the coming months, particularly before you plan to leave? CHAIRMAN (In English):-I am not too hopeful about this project. Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. But I would like to think that by autumn we should have made a move in that direction. MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Just a move, Mr. Chairman? MR. SALES (In English):-Sir, on a serious note, do I have your assurance that the setting up of these regional offices does not in any way mean that, in the opinion of the department, it is not necessary eventually to have Select Committees or other Working Committees set up by the Council to oversee the regions? MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, would you care to answer for Government. What is the point of giving this Council a measure Page 200 of 206 Page 200Page 201
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206

378

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

379

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not as far as I am aware, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES (In English):-I thought so, Mr. Chairman. I thought this suggestion came from the Unofficial Members.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):--Mr. Chairman, could I ask you when will the two regional assistant directors be appointed?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-As soon as I have more staff to support them, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, will it be before the pilot project in the Central District is established?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Not at all.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask whether the department has considered setting up two pilot projects at the same time: one on the Island, which is Central as you men- tioned, and another in Kowloon, which has a much larger population and which, from the point of view of the Urban Services Department and this Council, is equally, if not more important, than the Island?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-No, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English): -Why wasn't it considered, Mr. Chairman?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-Because one pilot project is sufficient, we hope, to bring out all the snags.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Is Central District representing the whole of Hong Kong Island and Kowloon?

CHAIRMAN (In English):--It is representative as any, I think, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. As I said the problem is the question of supervision.

MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, is it not a fact that I recommended to you the creation of three regional offices to start off with, and eventually five in accordance with the ten urban districts?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-I remember the three, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES (In English):-It has been made known to you in writing, and is also part of my speech at the Annual Debate. I would like to suggest that serious consideration be given to setting up the third regional office so that Kowloon may have two in order to be

1

responsible for six urban districts, and Hong Kong Island one regional office to start off for four urban districts and eventually, as I suggested, there might be consideration for an additional regional office.

CHAIRMAN (In English):-I accept what you say, Mr. SALES. This can be considered, but I have problems in finding staff for two regions I will have even more problems in finding staff for three or more.

MR. SALES (In English): -Is this perhaps not due to the fact that, in the engagement of staff, Government has been notoriously short- sighted and not planning well in advance?

CHAIRMAN (In English): -Your question is out of order, Mr.

SALES.

MR. SALES (In English):—It always is out of order, Mr. Chairman, when it touches on a very sore point.

CHAIRMAN (In English):-By way of clarification, ladies and gentlemen, the whole impetus for this re-organization came from this department and this Council. The Secretariat is in no way involved in the way Mr. SALES suggests.

MR. SALES (In English):-Mr. Chairman, the word "Secretariat" didn't arise at all. I would ask you to check the record. It never even crossed my mind that the Secretariat was involved.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, can I confirm that, from what you have said so far, you are very pessimistic that the department can recruit the right quality and the sufficient number of staff to implement this re-organization during the coming months, particularly before you plan to leave?

CHAIRMAN (In English):-I am not too hopeful about this project. Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. But I would like to think that by autumn we should have made a move in that direction.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Just a move, Mr. Chairman?

MR. SALES (In English):-Sir, on a serious note, do I have your assurance that the setting up of these regional offices does not in any way mean that, in the opinion of the department, it is not necessary eventually to have Select Committees or other Working Committees set up by the Council to oversee the regions?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN (In English):-Mr. Chairman, would you care to answer for Government. What is the point of giving this Council

a measure

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