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MR. FORSGATE:-Can I carry on with my supplementary, it hasn't been satisfactorily answered . . .?
CHAIRMAN:-Mr. BERNACCHI, are you asking a supplementary?
MR. BERNACCHI:-No, I am adding to the answer.
CHAIRMAN:-In what capacity?
MR. BERNACCHI :--I am answering as the previous Chairman of the Policy Select Committee that in fact as Mr. FORSGATE should know it is the policy of this Council at this moment to give hawkers inside Ngau Tau Kok resettlement estate priority to ballot for the new stalls.
CHAIRMAN: ---I am quite able to give such answers and also I think the relevant Committee Chairman can give this answer, Mr. BERNACCHI.
MR. BERNACCHI:-But he wasn't a member at the time.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, will you confirm that a general policy on reorganizing the hawker situation in resettlement estates has now been worked out and that positive steps are being taken to regulate the situation?
CHAIRMAN:-It stems from the creation of the modular markets and the stalls round about.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Would you please draw that to the attention of the Resettlement Department?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-We are fully aware of that. In fact we took the initiative to start the whole scheme.
We are already building a number of module markets in certain estates as I have already mentioned and to be exact at Sau Mau Ping we have built 195 modules for 552 stalls. At Hing Wah Stage 1 we are building 36 modules for 68 stalls. In Yau Tong area "C" we are building 37 modules for 98 stalls. In Castle Peak we are building 37 modules for 94 stalls. Now we are looking at Ngau Tau Kok itself. We consider we need at least 144 modules to cater for the 700 odd stalls and we need perhaps 380 to 400 modules for Shek Lei and 400 or more in Tsz Wan Shan. We are looking into it in detail and we are building as fast as we can with the assistance of the Public Works Department. We are very concerned with the situation and we are risking our life in getting this thing through.
MR. FORSGATE:--There is no doubt in my mind that the Commissioner and his merry men do their stuff within the limits of their capacity and capability but surely that's enough of a problem. Could you assure us, Sir, that our policy will have the means to be put into effect in the future?
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CHAIRMAN: —I would like to think so, not only the Urban Services Department but also the Resettlement Department.
MR. HU-May I answer Mr. FORSGATE's question. Of course Ngau Tau Kok is, I should say, the worst estate. The other estates are better than Ngau Tau Kok estate. In particular after the Ngau Tau Kok experience the Resettlement Department staff now they take very careful view concerning Sau Mau Ping for example. We are always demolishing those static things and to let the hawker be a truly pedlar hawker there. In Ngau Tau Kok it is worse of course. Really Mr. FORSGATE should not think that all the estates are all like Ngau Tau Kok. The other estates are much better.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: Mr. Chairman, perhaps I should answer the point that was really made. I think the point was in fact included in Mr. Hu's answer. This plan will shortly be submitted to the Council for approval and subsequently to Government for provision of the necessary resources including control manpower. I thought that was implicit in the answer.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, if this is not out of order may I ask about Tsz Wan Shan because the Commissioner mentioned Sau Mau Ping, Ngau Tau Kok, Hing Wah and Castle Peak. What about Tsz Wan Shan?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:—Yes, I mentioned we need probably four to five hundred. We are looking into the situation, 400 to 500 modules perhaps you see. We are looking into it but we have not got the details yet. We have to count the number of hawkers then find out the nature of the trade each hawker is engaged in. Certain hawkers will need just one stall in the module of four but certain other hawkers will need a whole module. That is the position. It is a long and drawn out process. We have to count them one by one, examine them one by one. When we have got all the information then we have to work out carefully a plan of operation, which one will move first and where to and how to get them to agree to co-operate. At that time I hope we shall get the assistance, we shall enlist your assistance as Ward member for the estate to help the department to get this thing through.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, will you give the assurance to the Commissioner for Resettlement that he asks for that this Council will support his staff when they are carrying out this Council's policies?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I ask the Council which particular action or which particular measure so far taken by Resettlement Department is not based on a policy decision or management decision decided by a Committee of this particular Council?
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MR. FORSGATE:-Can I carry on with my supplementary, it hasn't been satisfactorily answered . . .?
CHAIRMAN:-Mr. BERNACCHI, are you asking a supplementary?
MR. BERNACCHI:-No, I am adding to the answer.
CHAIRMAN:-In what capacity?
MR. BERNACCHI :--I am answering as the previous Chairman of the Policy Select Committee that in fact as Mr. FORSGATE should know it is the policy of this Council at this moment to give hawkers inside Ngau Tau Kok resettlement estate priority to ballot for the new stalls.
CHAIRMAN: ---I am quite able to give such answers and also I think the relevant Committee Chairman can give this answer, Mr. BERNACCHI.
MR. BERNACCHI:-But he wasn't a member at the time.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, will you confirm that a general policy on reorganizing the hawker situation in resettlement estates has now been worked out and that positive steps are being taken to regulate the situation?
CHAIRMAN:-It stems from the creation of the modular markets and the stalls round about.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Would you please draw that to the attention of the Resettlement Department?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-We are fully aware of that. In fact we took the initiative to start the whole scheme.
We are already building a number of module markets in certain estates as I have already mentioned and to be exact at Sau Mau Ping we have built 195 modules for 552 stalls. At Hing Wah Stage 1 we are build- ing 36 modules for 68 stalls. In Yau Tong area "C" we are building 37 modules for 98 stalls. In Castle Peak we are building 37 modules for 94 stalls. Now we are looking at Ngau Tau Kok itself. We con- sider we need at least 144 modules to cater for the 700 odd stalls and we need perhaps 380 to 400 modules for Shek Lei and 400 or more in Tsz Wan Shan. We are looking into it in detail and we are building as fast as we can with the assistance of the Public Works Department. We are very concerned with the situation and we are risking our life in getting this thing through.
MR. FORSGATE:--There is no doubt in my mind that the Commis- sioner and his merry men do their stuff within the limits of their capacity and capability but surely that's enough of a problem. Could you assure us, Sir, that our policy will have the means to be put into effect in the future?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
121
CHAIRMAN: —I would like to think so, not only the Urban Services Department but also the Resettlement Department.
MR. HU-May I answer Mr. FORSGATE's question. Of course Ngau Tau Kok is, I should say, the worst estate. The other estates are better than Ngau Tau Kok estate. In particular after the Ngau Tau Kok experience the Resettlement Department staff now they take very careful view concerning Sau Mau Ping for example. We are always demolishing those static things and to let the hawker be a truly pedlar hawker there. In Ngau Tau Kok it is worse of course. Really Mr. FORSGATE should not think that all the estates are all like Ngau Tau Kok. The other estates are much better.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: Mr. Chairman, perhaps I should answer the point that was really made. I think the point was in fact included in Mr. Hu's answer. This plan will shortly be sub- mitted to the Council for approval and subsequently to Government for provision of the necessary resources including control manpower. I thought that was implicit in the answer.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, if this is not out of order may I ask about Tsz Wan Shan because the Commissioner mentioned Sau Mau Ping, Ngau Tau Kok, Hing Wah and Castle Peak. What about Tsz Wan Shan?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:—Yes, I mentioned we need probably four to five hundred. We are looking into the situation, 400 to 500 modules perhaps you see. We are looking into it but we have not got the details yet. We have to count the number of hawkers then find out the nature of the trade each hawker is engaged in. Certain hawkers will need just one stall in the module of four but certain other hawkers will need a whole module. That is the position. It is a long and drawn out process. We have to count them one by one, examine them one by one. When we have got all the information then we have to work out carefully a plan of operation, which one will move first and where to and how to get them to agree to co-operate. At that time I hope we shall get the assistance, we shall enlist your assistance as Ward member for the estate to help the department to get this thing through.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, will you give the assurance to the Commissioner for Resettlement that he asks for that this Council will support his staff when they are carrying out this Council's policies?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I ask the Council which particular action or which particular measure so far taken by Resettle- ment Department is not based on a policy decision or management decision decided by a Committee of this particular Council?
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