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doubt recall that at one time all the market programme had been suspended for some time.
now.
MR. BERNACCHI:-In fact I think it was more than ten years ago
MR. LOBO:-Off hand I couldn't say what category it is now.
CHAIRMAN:-Category B.
MR. LOBO:-I think it is Category B according to the Chairman.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Now again the Chairman says "older estates", speaking about modular markets "older estates are also included in the later stages of the modular markets programme". Now again how much later and why not in effect now?
MR. LOBO:-Well the plan is to build the module markets together with the new estates and where applicable in the new ones which I mentioned. The old estates are more congested and I think the Resettlement Department has some plans too. Perhaps Mr. Tsui can answer that better.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Of course, I think Members are aware that we are contemplating urban renewal in resettlement estates so to speak. If our proposals to renew Shek Kip Mei Estate are approved then there will not be a need for, no justification for, putting modular markets in Shek Kip Mei for instance. That is one of the points, a factor to be considered. The other point is I think there is a capacity as to how many modular markets should be built at one time and thirdly certainly we will have a problem of recruiting sufficient manpower to manage these estates, to manage these modular markets, and also we shall need experience to know whether these things will work in the resettlement context. So we have to do it bit by bit to begin with and certainly I hope we shall see modular markets in all the old estates.
MR. BERNACCHI:-As regards particularly B, apart from these modular markets is any new off street hawker bazaar being planned for resettlement estates?
MR. LOBO:-Wherever there is land and space available it is always preferable to put hawkers in bazaars but I couldn't say about the resettlement estates because that comes under the Resettlement Department.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-May I try to answer that?
MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes.
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COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-There are problems of priority, relative priorities within the estates. There are views that we should provide more space for children to play and at the same time there are views that we should use them for hawkers so I think the Council itself may be the best judge as to which should have higher priority.
MR. BERNACCHI:-In that case could this priority question about children's playgrounds versus hawker bazaars be placed before the Council in Committee of the Whole so that we can resolve it once and for all even if it is resolved on an estate by estate basis?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I think, Mr. Chairman, the question should certainly be considered by Management Committee first, and, if the Management Committee think it is worthwhile going further, through that committee to the Committee of the Whole. I think it might be necessary to go through not only the Management but also the Policy Committee, maybe even a joint meeting of the Policy, Management and also the Recreation and Amenities Committees in an important matter of this kind.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that the Resettlement Department is now studying practical ways and means of how to reorder the existing situation in regard to the 12,000 hawkers in resettlement estates and that practical proposals we hope will be put forward eventually to the Select Committees concerned?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I can only say that we are experimenting, trying out. I don't think that we have worked out a foolproof proposal yet. Certainly it is the beginning of it and we hope to be able to tell from our own experience whether this proposal for such a scheme commends itself.
MR. BERNACCHI:-One last point and that is the Chairman of the Markets Select Committee says that the new modular markets will be given by ballot in the following order of priority, does he mean that if there is enough of Category 1, Categories 2 and 3 will be excluded or is the order of priority the same as, for instance, the order of priority in the White Paper that if you come within 1, 2 or 3 you have a certain amount of chance of getting it?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I would like to correct a point, so far as the priority in the White Paper is concerned. I think paragraph 15, 1964 White Paper specifically specifies "in the descending order" so I would like to clarify that point. So you really mean that your Committee will operate this priority in descending order.
MR. LOBO:-Yes, I think so.
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doubt recall that at one time all the market programme had been suspended for some time.
now.
MR. BERNACCHI:-In fact I think it was more than ten years ago
MR. LOBO:-Off hand I could't say what category it is now.
CHAIRMAN:-Category B.
MR. LOBO:--I think it is Category B according to the Chairman.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Now again the Chairman says "older estates", speaking about modular markets "older estates are also included in the later stages of the modular markets programme". Now again how much later and why not in effect now?
MR. LOBO:--Well the plan is to build the module markets together with the new estates and where applicable in the new ones which I mentioned. The old estates are more congested and I think the Resettlement Department has some plans too. Perhaps Mr. Tsur can answer that better.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Of course, I think Members are aware that we are contemplating urban renewal in resettlement estates so to speak. If our proposals to renew Shek Kip Mei Estate are approved then there will not be a need for, no justification for, putting modular markets in Shep Kip Mei for instance. That is one of the points, a factor to be considered. The other point is I think there is a capacity as to how many modular markets should be built at one time and thirdly certainly we will have a problem of recruiting sufficient manpower to manage these estates, to manage these modular markets, and also we shall need experience to know whether these things will work in the resettlement context. So we have to do it bit by bit to begin with and certainly I hope we shall see modular markets in all the old estates.
MR. BERNACCHI:-As regards particularly B, apart from these modular markets is any new off street hawker bazaar being planned for resettlement estates?
MR. LOBO:-Wherever there is land and space available it is always preferable to put hawkers in bazaars but I couldn't say about the resettlement estates because that comes under the Resettlement Department.
COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT:-May I try to answer that?
MR. BERNACCHI: --Yes.
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COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-There
are problems of priority, relative priorities within the estates. There are views that we should provide more space for children to play and at the same time there are views that we should use them for hawkers so I think the Council itself may be the best judge as to which should have higher priority.
MR. BERNACCHI:-In that case could this priority question about children's playgrounds versus hawker bazaars be placed before the Council in Committee of the Whole so that we can resolve it once and for all even if it is resolved on an estate by estate basis?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I think, Mr. Chairman, the question should certainly be considered by Management Committee first, and, if the Management Committee think it is worthwhile going further, through that committee to the Committee of the Whole. I think it might be necessary to go through not only the Management but also the Policy Committee, maybe even a joint meeting of the Policy, Management and also the Recreation and Amenities Committees in an important matter of this kind.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Is it not a fact, Mr. Chairman, that the Resettlement Department is now studying practical ways and means of how to reorder the existing situation in regard to the 12,000 hawkers in resettlement estates and that practical proposals we hope will be put forward eventually to the Select Committees concerned?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I can only say that we are experimenting, trying out. I don't think that we have worked out a foolproof proposal yet. Certainly it is the beginning of it and we hope to be able to tell from our own experience whether this proposal for such a scheme commends itself.
MR. BERNACCHI:-One last point and that is the Chairman of the Markets Select Committee says that the new modular markets will be given by ballot in the following order of priority, does he mean that if there is enough of Category 1, Categories 2 and 3 will be excluded or is the order of priority the same as, for instance, the order of priority in the White Paper that if you come within 1, 2 or 3 you have a certain amount of chance of getting it?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I would like to correct a point, so far as the priority in the White Paper is concerned. I think paragraph 15, 1964 White Paper specifically specifies "in the descending order" so I would like to clarify that point. So you really mean that your Committee will operate this priority in descending order.
MR. LOBO:--Yes, I think so.
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