1970 — Page 232

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 232 of 241

442

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Pitches including those on any streets are allocated by the Urban Council under by-law 31 of the Hawker By-laws.

Property owners are only required to repair or make up streets or pay for such where they are under a legal liability so to do and the presence or absence of hawkers is irrelevant to this point.

MRS. ELLIOTT : Mr. Chairman, may I ask you if fixed pitch means fixed pitch wherever the pitch may be?

CHAIRMAN: --Fixed pitch means fixed pitch, but when the new By-laws come into being and we enforce the new policy, fixed pitches will, in some instances, not have a pitch allocated to them. The hawker will be able to trade in a certain area, but the pitches will not be allocated.

MRS. ELLIOTT: --Mr. Chairman, I may be very stupid but I can't understand what you mean when you say it is irrelevant to the point. The presence or absence of hawkers is irrelevant to whether or not property owners pay for the repair of the street. When a street is defaced and damaged by hawker bazaars, hawker lorries going back and forwards and so on, in what way is it irrelevant as to who has to pay for it?

CHAIRMAN: --I don't see there is any difference between hawkers damaging the street or heavy transport going in and out of the same street or pedestrians wearing out the street.

MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, would you say then--I am sorry I am asking you for an opinion--would you say that people walking along the street to their own houses are going to damage the street to the extent that hawkers trading and lorries carrying vegetables are going to damage the street?

CHAIRMAN: --Probably not, but you do have lorries carrying other things than vegetables to hawkers.

MR. BERNACCHI : --If I may dare to interpret the meaning of Mrs. ELLIOTT'S question, surely it is that if the liability is on private owners to repair the street, then the fact that that street contains a hawker bazaar makes it very much more likely to need more expense in repairing. So the question I would like to ask as my own supplementary is, is it fair on these owners to have to repair the street, or can some arrangements be made whereby in creating these sort of hawker bazaars the Government takes over the liability to repair?

CHAIRMAN: --I would need notice of that question, Mr. BERNACCHI.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

443

MRS. ELLIOTT: --Mr. Chairman, may I clarify that I am talking about Kimberley Street, which is in a shocking state due to hawkers and not due to pedestrians walking along the street.

MR. SALES: --Mr. Chairman, does not this question concern hawker policy? I asked you, Mr. Chairman, whether this question concerns hawker policy?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, may I answer that with your permission. The first part directly concerns hawker policy, but the second part does have a bearing on the activities of another department. I thought the answer had best come from you, and you kindly agreed to answer it.

MR. SALES: ----I might have been forgiven for assuming that because of elections you have assumed the Chairmanship of Hawker Policy Select Committee. You and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN have behaved like Box and Cox on this occasion. (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I can give Mr. SALES every assurance that he is completely under the wrong apprehension of the situation.

MR. SALES: --I am very much encouraged by that remark.

MRS. ELLIOTT: --Mr. Chairman, I don't think the people in Kimberley Street are feeling quite so happy about it as Mr. SALES and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. May I ask that this question be considered by all departments concerned so as to be fair to the owners of the houses.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --To answer Mrs. ELLIOTT, I am as much concerned and as you well know I discussed this very thoroughly with the Assistant Director, and I am sure it will be followed up after the meeting is over.

(5) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:-

Why has the reasonable request of New Territories voters for a polling booth in the New Territories not been granted, since it takes more than two hours to travel to vote in the urban area?

THE CHAIRMAN, URBAN COUNCIL, replied as follows:-

A similar question was answered in October 1968, when I informed Members that the Registration and Returning Officers had considered the need for polling stations in the New Territories, but had concluded that there was no single district with sufficient voters to justify a separate station.

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Page 232 of 241 442 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Pitches including those on any streets are allocated by the Urban Council under by-law 31 of the Hawker By-laws. Property owners are only required to repair or make up streets or pay for such where they are under a legal liability so to do and the presence or absence of hawkers is irrelevant to this point. MRS. ELLIOTT : Mr. Chairman, may I ask you if fixed pitch means fixed pitch wherever the pitch may be? CHAIRMAN: --Fixed pitch means fixed pitch, but when the new By-laws come into being and we enforce the new policy, fixed pitches will, in some instances, not have a pitch allocated to them. The hawker will be able to trade in a certain area, but the pitches will not be allocated. MRS. ELLIOTT: --Mr. Chairman, I may be very stupid but I can't understand what you mean when you say it is irrelevant to the point. The presence or absence of hawkers is irrelevant to whether or not property owners pay for the repair of the street. When a street is defaced and damaged by hawker bazaars, hawker lorries going back and forwards and so on, in what way is it irrelevant as to who has to pay for it? CHAIRMAN: --I don't see there is any difference between hawkers damaging the street or heavy transport going in and out of the same street or pedestrians wearing out the street. MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, would you say then--I am sorry I am asking you for an opinion--would you say that people walking along the street to their own houses are going to damage the street to the extent that hawkers trading and lorries carrying vegetables are going to damage the street? CHAIRMAN: --Probably not, but you do have lorries carrying other things than vegetables to hawkers. MR. BERNACCHI : --If I may dare to interpret the meaning of Mrs. ELLIOTT'S question, surely it is that if the liability is on private owners to repair the street, then the fact that that street contains a hawker bazaar makes it very much more likely to need more expense in repairing. So the question I would like to ask as my own supplementary is, is it fair on these owners to have to repair the street, or can some arrangements be made whereby in creating these sort of hawker bazaars the Government takes over the liability to repair? CHAIRMAN: --I would need notice of that question, Mr. BERNACCHI. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 443 MRS. ELLIOTT: --Mr. Chairman, may I clarify that I am talking about Kimberley Street, which is in a shocking state due to hawkers and not due to pedestrians walking along the street. MR. SALES: --Mr. Chairman, does not this question concern hawker policy? I asked you, Mr. Chairman, whether this question concerns hawker policy? MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, may I answer that with your permission. The first part directly concerns hawker policy, but the second part does have a bearing on the activities of another department. I thought the answer had best come from you, and you kindly agreed to answer it. MR. SALES: ----I might have been forgiven for assuming that because of elections you have assumed the Chairmanship of Hawker Policy Select Committee. You and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN have behaved like Box and Cox on this occasion. (Laughter). MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I can give Mr. SALES every assurance that he is completely under the wrong apprehension of the situation. MR. SALES: --I am very much encouraged by that remark. MRS. ELLIOTT: --Mr. Chairman, I don't think the people in Kimberley Street are feeling quite so happy about it as Mr. SALES and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. May I ask that this question be considered by all departments concerned so as to be fair to the owners of the houses. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --To answer Mrs. ELLIOTT, I am as much concerned and as you well know I discussed this very thoroughly with the Assistant Director, and I am sure it will be followed up after the meeting is over. (5) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:- Why has the reasonable request of New Territories voters for a polling booth in the New Territories not been granted, since it takes more than two hours to travel to vote in the urban area? THE CHAIRMAN, URBAN COUNCIL, replied as follows:- A similar question was answered in October 1968, when I informed Members that the Registration and Returning Officers had considered the need for polling stations in the New Territories, but had concluded that there was no single district with sufficient voters to justify a separate station. 241

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241 Page 232 of 241 442 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Pitches including those on any streets are allocated by the Urban Council under by-law 31 of the Hawker By-laws. Property owners are only required to repair or make up streets or pay for such where they are under a legal liability so to do and the presence or absence of hawkers is irrel- evant to this point. MRS. ELLIOTT : Mr. Chairman, may I ask you if fixed pitch means fixed pitch wherever the pitch may be? CHAIRMAN: --Fixed pitch means fixed pitch, but when the new By-laws come into being and we enforce the new policy, fixed pitches will, in some instances, not have a pitch allocated to them. The hawker will be able to trade in a certain area, but the pitches will not be allocated. MRS. ELLIOTT:--Mr. Chairman, I may be very stupid but I can't understand what you mean when you say it is irrelevant to the point. The presence or absence of hawkers is irrelevant to whether or not property owners pay for the repair of the street. When a street is defaced and damaged by hawker bazaars, hawker lorries going back and forwards and so on, in what way is it irrelevant as to who has to pay for it? CHAIRMAN:-I don't see there is any difference between hawkers damaging the street or heavy transport going in and out of the same street or pedestrians wearing out the street. MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, would you say then-I am sorry I am asking you for an opinion-would you say that people walking along the street to their own houses are going to damage the street to the extent that hawkers trading and lorries carrying vegetables are going to damage the street? CHAIRMAN: -Probably not, but you do have lorries carrying other things than vegetables to hawkers. MR. BERNACCHI : -If I may dare to interpret the meaning of Mrs. ELLIOTT'S question, surely it is that if the liability is on private owners to repair the street, then the fact that that street contains a hawker bazaar makes it very much more likely to need more expense in repairing. So the question I would like to ask as my own supple- mentary is, is it fair on these owners to have to repair the street, or can some arrangements be made whereby in creating these sort of hawker bazaars the Government takes over the liability to repair? CHAIRMAN:-I Would need notice of that question, Mr. BERNACCHI. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 443 MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I clarify that I am talking about Kimberley Street, which is in a shocking state due to hawkers and not due to pedestrians walking along the street. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, does not this question concern hawker policy? I asked you, Mr. Chairman, whether this question con- cerns hawker policy? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I answer that with your permission. The first part directly concerns hawker policy, but the second part does have a bearing on the activities of another department. I thought the answer had best come from you, and you kindly agreed to answer it. MR. SALES: ----I might have been forgiven for assuming that because of elections you have assumed the Chairmanship of Hawker Policy Select Committee. You and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN have behaved like Box and Cox on this occasion. (Laughter). MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I can give Mr. SALES every assurance that he is completely under the wrong apprehension of the situation. MR. SALES: --I am very much encouraged by that remark. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I don't think the people in Kimberley Street are feeling quite so happy about it as Mr. SALES and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. May I ask that this question be considered by all departments concerned so as to be fair to the owners of the houses. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-To answer Mrs. ELLIOTT, I am as much con- cerned and as you well know I discussed this very thoroughly with the Assistant Director, and I am sure it will be followed up after the meeting is over. (5) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:- Why has the reasonable request of New Territories voters for a polling booth in the New Territories not been granted, since it takes more than two hours to travel to vote in the urban area? THE CHAIRMAN, URBAN COUNCIL, replied as follows:- A similar question was answered in October 1968, when I informed Members that the Registration and Return- ing Officers had considered the need for polling stations in the New Territories, but had concluded that there was no single district with sufficient voters to justify a separate station.

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241

Page 232 of 241

442

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Pitches including those on any streets are allocated by the Urban Council under by-law 31 of the Hawker By-laws.

Property owners are only required to repair or make up streets or pay for such where they are under a legal liability so to do and the presence or absence of hawkers is irrel- evant to this point.

MRS. ELLIOTT : Mr. Chairman, may I ask you if fixed pitch means fixed pitch wherever the pitch may be?

MRS. ELLIOTT:--Mr. Chairman, I may be very stupid but I can't understand what you mean when you say it is irrelevant to the point. The presence or absence of hawkers is irrelevant to whether or not property owners pay for the repair of the street. When a street is defaced and damaged by hawker bazaars, hawker lorries going back and forwards and so on, in what way is it irrelevant as to who has to pay for it?

CHAIRMAN:-I don't see there is any difference between hawkers damaging the street or heavy transport going in and out of the same street or pedestrians wearing out the street.

MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, would you say then-I am sorry I am asking you for an opinion-would you say that people walking along the street to their own houses are going to damage the street to the extent that hawkers trading and lorries carrying vegetables are going to damage the street?

CHAIRMAN: -Probably not, but you do have lorries carrying other things than vegetables to hawkers.

MR. BERNACCHI : -If I may dare to interpret the meaning of Mrs. ELLIOTT'S question, surely it is that if the liability is on private owners to repair the street, then the fact that that street contains a hawker bazaar makes it very much more likely to need more expense in repairing. So the question I would like to ask as my own supple- mentary is, is it fair on these owners to have to repair the street, or can some arrangements be made whereby in creating these sort of hawker bazaars the Government takes over the liability to repair?

CHAIRMAN:-I Would need notice of that question, Mr. BERNACCHI.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

443

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I clarify that I am talking about Kimberley Street, which is in a shocking state due to hawkers and not due to pedestrians walking along the street.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, does not this question concern hawker policy? I asked you, Mr. Chairman, whether this question con- cerns hawker policy?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I answer that with your permission. The first part directly concerns hawker policy, but the second part does have a bearing on the activities of another department. I thought the answer had best come from you, and you kindly agreed to answer it.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I can give Mr. SALES every assurance that he is completely under the wrong apprehension of the situation.

MR. SALES: --I am very much encouraged by that remark.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I don't think the people in Kimberley Street are feeling quite so happy about it as Mr. SALES and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN. May I ask that this question be considered by all departments concerned so as to be fair to the owners of the houses.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-To answer Mrs. ELLIOTT, I am as much con- cerned and as you well know I discussed this very thoroughly with the Assistant Director, and I am sure it will be followed up after the meeting is over.

(5) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question:-

Why has the reasonable request of New Territories voters for a polling booth in the New Territories not been granted, since it takes more than two hours to travel to vote in the urban area?

THE CHAIRMAN, URBAN COUNCIL, replied as follows:-

A similar question was answered in October 1968, when I informed Members that the Registration and Return- ing Officers had considered the need for polling stations in the New Territories, but had concluded that there was no single district with sufficient voters to justify a separate station.

1970 — Page 232

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