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Attendance at Select Committees has been given some airing in the press recently. The emphasis has been that Councillors have been shirking their commitment to the public. Perhaps I can put this record straight also. Each unofficial Member serves on an average of 5.5 Select Committees. This is in addition to the Public Meetings of the Council, the Standing Committee of the Whole Council and the many sub-committees, including appeals sub-committees, which are set up from time to time or continue in being on a permanent basis. The work of a Councillor is not confined entirely to the time spent in committee. His position as a Councillor makes it necessary for him or her to attend many ceremonies. There is the time devoted to ward offices. There is the time taken in travelling to and from meetings and other commitments. There is the time required to study the many papers referred to Members. And last, but not least, there is the additional time that Chairmen of Select Committees need to put into their studies, negotiations with the Department, discussions with members of the public, etc. in order to steer their committees.

A recent article appearing in a local newspaper drew attention to the fact that for the quarter ending 30th June, only four Councillors attended every meeting they should have. The report failed to mention that other Councillors only missed one or two meetings out of a possible 24. This, in my opinion, could have misled the public into believing that the Council was indeed "in a slump" as suggested by the report. This is just not true! And I would now like to take this opportunity to thank all Members for the time and effort they have put into the work of this Council, such support as they have been able to give me and my official Colleagues and staff during the year and the devotion they have applied to the many problems which have confronted them.

I support the Motion before Council. (Applause).

I now call on Mr. SALES, the mover of the Motion, to exercise his right of reply.

Mr. A. de O. SALES: Mr. Chairman, once again it is on behalf of the unofficial Members of the Council that I wind up this debate. Once again, Sir, I would like to say how interesting it has been to listen to the speeches made by our official Colleagues. It is a pity, that so much information revealed to us for the first time today has not been disclosed to the public. If such details had been known to the public, perhaps there would have been, or might have been, a better understanding of the machinery of Government, but then Government works behind closed doors and even for members of the Council so much that Government does is indeed news; sometimes, good; at other times, bad; bad when certain committees, inter-departmental committees of which Members may not be aware, are brought into the picture to decide on projects and programmes proposed by Members of this Council. We may be forgiven for suspecting that such Committees, to our way of thinking, have perhaps as one of their terms of reference, "throw a spanner in the works". It becomes for us an exercise in frustration. But, were their reasoning properly explained to the Urban Council and other public committees, there again might have been a better understanding of the ways of our Government.

Mr. Chairman, more than once in this Council, Unofficials have said that we work together as a team because we are all dedicated to the progress of the Council and to working for the benefit of the people by means of the various programmes which we advocate. Just, as we have done throughout the year in Select Committees, we have also thought it necessary to discuss in public certain programmes and aspects of Government which, by public discussion, we feel might bring about even greater benefit to Hong Kong as a whole. We are all sincerely dedicated to working together in order to raise the quality of life of the people here in every way possible. Therefore, Sir, if any criticism has been thought to be unjust, then such criticism should be accepted and examined in that light. There has been once again a noticeable undercurrent of resentment on the part of some official Members just as there has been a reaction of frustration on the part of the Unofficials. Were it not for this frustration, some of the criticism might not have been made. Indeed, Mr. Chairman, were there a clearer definition of policy by the Government on fundamental issues affecting the Urban Council, we might not have experienced that reaction of frustration. You yourself declared today, just as you did on previous occasions, that it was about time Government gave us a decision on certain matters which are of close and fundamental concern to this Council - the Council's future, for example. That has been hanging fire for ever so long.

You and your Colleagues have brought up many instances of good and solid work done by your respective departments. Indeed, Sir, I would like to suggest that in many such cases the progress that has been made has perhaps been instigated by members of the public, not only Members of this Council. It is by public discussion of fundamental issues that a public programme can be worked out of common interest to the people. Because of the structure of our Government, far more heed must be taken of public opinion expressed either by community leaders or by organizations set up to work in various ways for the public good and, for that very reason, Sir, much more attention must be paid to these views than were the government wholly elected and directly responsible to the people and so more responsive to public needs at any given time; then, this very complex system of consultation which obtains in Hong Kong might not have been necessary. The

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