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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. BERNACCHI:-As Chairman of the Policy Select Committee, I regretfully have to say that it is still the authorities in Government above this Council who determine that children below the age of 10 should be counted as half an adult.
MR. SALES: Thank you very much for clarifying the position, Mr. Chairman. It is as known to this Council. Sir, since the Council has adopted a formula which promotes the interest of children below 10—between 6 and 10—for decantation and resettlement, can you tell us what additional representations you have made on behalf of the Council in this matter, so that when the question of eligibility for decantation is considered, children will not be discriminated against?
CHAIRMAN:-I rule your question out of order, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: Sir, I am asking this question following the main question put by Mrs. ELLIOTT where the term "eligible for decantation" is used. If you insist on ruling me out of order, Sir, might I suggest that perhaps a careful review of our Standing Orders would be called for?
CHAIRMAN:-I have no objection, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES:---Thank you very much. Do you still persist in evading the question.
CHAIRMAN: I have ruled your question out of order, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES---Thank you. I am prepared to accept your ruling provided it is recorded that the question has been evaded.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Could the subject matter of Mr. SALES' question be referred for review by the Policy Committee, Mr. Chairman?
MR. HU:---I think that probably is a better solution, Mr. Chairman, because I, of course, am a strong supporter of Sales formula. (Laughter). Of treating the children
CHAIRMAN:-Mr. Hu, are you asking a supplementary question?
MR. HU:-No, I answer. (Laughter)—Are you ruling me
CHAIRMAN: ---The question was addressed to me, Mr. Hu—deliberately.
MR. HU-I think in this case I'd better not answer it. (Laughter).
MR. SALES: -Are we to understand that you are muzzling the Chairman of a Select Committee when, in the discharge of his duties, he has attempted to answer a question and clarify the position. (Laughter).
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN: ---The question was addressed to me.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Mr. Chairman, I do not mind who answers the question, whether it is yourself, or the Chairman of the Policy Committee, or the Chairman of the Management Committee, so long as it can be agreed that such will be done.
MR. SALES: ---But if I have any choice I prefer that it be answered by Mr. Henry Hu, and I speak on behalf of the Appointed Members. (Laughter).
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, in that case I would assure Mr. SALES that his formula will be discussed in the Management Select Committee.
MR. SALES: Thank you for an excellent answer.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I think as Chairman of the Policy Select Committee, I must put one damper on the question, and that is, as Mr. SALES well knows, resettlement is controlled by the Housing Board. It was not the intention of those that recommended the creation of the Housing Board, but still the Housing Board have made it 10 years in preference to the formula, that has become known as the Sales Formula, that the density of 35 sq. ft. should be substituted, still keeping children as half an adult, and I think that that obstacle, if I may say, has to be overcome.
MR. SALES-Sir, I think it is agreed by this Council, with your permission, that when the Council promoted the Housing Board with the Government, like Frankenstein, we created a monster.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, on the same question, in the table given, may I ask a question about Tung Tau Resettlement Estate? The qualifying density for decantation is given as 19.1 sq. ft. per adult. Would the Commissioner—I’m sorry I'm asking the Commissioner because I don't think Mr. Hu would have the details available—I wonder if the Commissioner can confirm that over 500 families were living at less than 17 sq. ft., so I wonder how the qualifying density can be 19.1.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, I thought the qualifying density was approved by the Management Committee not by me, Sir. I cannot at this stage give the exact number. I shall look into it, Mr. Chairman.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I now ask the Chairman of the Management Select Committee is it true that his Committee decided the density of 17.1, or 19.1?
MR. HU:-Sir, I of course can answer Mrs. ELLIOTT's question, that in May 1970 the families who were eligible to apply for decanta-
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194
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. BERNACCHI:-As Chairman of the Policy Select Committee, I regretfully have to say that it is still the authorities in Government above this Council who determine that children below the age of 10 should be counted as half an adult.
MR. SALES: Thank you very much for clarifying the position, Mr. Chairman. It is as known to this Council. Sir, since the Council has adopted a formula which promotes the interest of children below 10- between 6 and 10-for decantation and resettlement, can you tell us what additional representations you have made on behalf of the Council in this matter, so that when the question of eligibility for decantation is considered, children will not be discriminated against?
CHAIRMAN:-I rule your question out of order, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: Sir, I am asking this question following the main question put by Mrs. ELLIOTT where the term "eligible for decantation" is used. If you insist on ruling me out of order, Sir, might I suggest that perhaps a careful review of our Standing Orders would be called for?
CHAIRMAN: -I have no objection, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES: ---Thank you very much. Do you still persist in evad- ing the question.
CHAIRMAN: I bave ruled your question out of order, Mr. SALES.
MR. SALES---Thank you. I am prepared to accept your ruling provided it is recorded that the question has been evaded.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Could the subject matter of Mr. SALES' ques- tion be referred for review by the Policy Committee, Mr. Chairman?
MR. HU:---I think that probably is a better solution, Mr. Chair- man, because I, of course, am a strong supporter of Sales formula. (Laughter). Of treating the children
CHAIRMAN:-Mr. Hu, are you asking a supplementary question?
MR. HU:-No, I answer. (Laughter)—Are you ruling me
CHAIRMAN: ---The question was addressed to me, Mr. Hu-delib-
erately.
MR. HU-I think in this case I'd better not answer it. (Laughter).
MR. SALES: -Are we to understand that you are muzzling the Chairman of a Select Committee when, in the discharge of his duties, he has attempted to answer a question and clarify the position. (Laughter).
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN: ---The question was addressed to me.
195
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Mr. Chairman, I do not mind who answers the question, whether it is yourself, or the Chairman of the Policy Committee, or the Chairman of the Management Committee, so long as it can be agreed that such will be done.
MR. SALES: ---But if I have any choice I prefer that it be answered by Mr. Henry Hu, and I speak on behalf of the Appointed Members. (Laughter).
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, in that case I would assure Mr. SALES that his formula will be discussed in the Management Select Committee.
MR. SALES: Thank you for an excellent answer.
MR. BERNACCHI :- -I think as Chairman of the Policy Select Com- mittee, I must put one damper on the question, and that is, as Mr. SALES well knows, resettlement is controlled by the Housing Board. It was not the intention of those that recommended the creation of the Housing Board, but still the Housing Board have made it 10 years in preference to the formula, that has become known as the Sales Formula, that the density of 35 sq. ft. should be substituted, still keeping children as half an adult, and I think that that obstacle, if I may say, has to be overcome.
MR. SALES-Sir, I think it is agreed by this Council, with your permission, that when the Council promoted the Housing Board with the Government, like Frankenstein, we created a monster.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, on the same question, in the table given, may I ask a question about Tung Tau Resettlement Estate? The qualifying density for decantation is given as 19.1 sq. ft. per adult. Would the Commissioner-I'm sorry I'm asking the Commissioner because I don't think Mr. Hu would have the details available-I wonder if the Commissioner can confirm that over 500 families were living at less than 17 sq. ft., so I wonder how the qualifying density can be 19.1.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, I thought the qualifying density was approved by the Management Committee not by me, Sir. I cannot at this stage give the exact number. I shall look into it, Mr. Chairman.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I now ask the Chairman of the Management Select Committee is it true that his Committee decided the density of 17.1, or 19.1?
MR. HU:-Sir, I of course can answer Mrs. ELLIOTT's question, that in May 1970 the families who were eligible to apply for decanta-
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