1969 — Page 77

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his full and informative reply to my question. Now, may I ask whether, in conjunction with the Hawker Management Select Committee, his committee is working to a time-table in the implementation of the policy that has been agreed upon?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, there has been established a priority working programme and a time-table for examination of the various aspects of policy has been agreed upon. Of course, we do try to be flexible and where we consider that there should be certain necessary changes in this time-table, we do effect those changes. However, as Mr. SALES is fully aware, the chief problem over the last two months has been the recruitment of hawker liaison staff in the Urban Services Department and the obtaining of additional staff by the Resettlement Department to assist the Urban Services Department in hawker matters. I would like to say that we seem to be arriving at the solution of this problem and I would estimate that there could be measurable improvement in hawker matters before the end of this year. I do not think that we want to be tied down to a long time-table, but we must also try to make the best use of manpower, make that manpower productive, and see that we get maximum results in the shortest time.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, through you I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG-LEEN again. Does the Chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee not agree that unless his Select Committee works to a time-table, no matter how flexible, the revised Hawker Policy 1969 will only look good on paper and will not produce the desired effect on the ground?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, I am in full agreement with Mr. SALES that we should work to a time-table, but our time-table is first, on the policy level, a realistic one. I would be very glad to send Mr. SALES a copy of the time-table of papers which we will study. On the management side, the time-table is geared to the training of staff, and I believe with the existing staff which the Department has, they have had a most difficult and arduous task in keeping the situation under control. I think with the existing staff that we have, they have done a pretty good show. Now, I would imagine that once the additional staff has been recruited and trained, we would be able to have a time-table at the management level to show how many black spots can be cleared in Resettlement Estates and in the urban areas, and just about how soon we should be able to look a little further and reduce the number of illegal hawkers. The number of illegal hawkers, Mr. Chairman, as you are aware, is quite large, and you know my views too, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to see as many as possible of the illegal hawkers, the able-bodied hawkers, being channelled into industry instead of hawking illegally, particularly in Resettlement Estates and making life difficult for the estate residents.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am obliged to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his very thoughtful reply. Does he, as chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee, not agree at the present time when the conditions in industry are booming that it would be propitious for the Council to exercise stricter control over the question of categories of people who should be allowed to earn a living as hawkers, as part of that revised policy that he mentions?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, this is already an established principle which has been accepted by both the Hawker Policy and Management Committees. However, the main problem is for us to have enough staff to keep the situation under control on the ground, and until we have such staff trained and experienced and able to do so, it would be very difficult for us to enforce a workable policy to channel as many illegal hawkers as possible into industry.

MR. SALES: -Sir, the chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee keeps referring to the need for more manpower to implement this policy. Has he taken into account the need to mechanize our control of hawkers as has been suggested in this Council by the introduction of parking meters, which would be perhaps an effective way of controlling the allocated sites?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, this suggestion has been mentioned time and time again in this Council, and even to me personally outside of the Council. I should be glad to refer this suggestion to the Hawker Management Select Committee who in turn will be able to consider it and make their recommendation to the Policy Committee.

(8) MR. A. de O. SALES asked the following question:-

What measures are normally taken to control illegal cooked food hawkers in order to protect public health and, more particularly, at the time of an outbreak of cholera?

MR. H. CHEONG-LEEN, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKER POLICY SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:

Although prohibited by law from selling cooked food without a licence or from dealing in restricted foods such as meat, fish and poultry, these unlicensed hawkers operate because of insufficient control staff. The stalls used by such unlicensed hawkers are usually without proper washing or sterilization facilities for dishes and utensils,

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his full and informative reply to my question. Now, may I ask whether, in conjunction with the Hawker Management Select Committee, his committee is working to a time-table in the implementation of the policy that has been agreed upon? MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, there has been established a priority working programme and a time-table for examination of the various aspects of policy has been agreed upon. Of course, we do try to be flexible and where we consider that there should be certain necessary changes in this time-table, we do effect those changes. However, as Mr. SALES is fully aware, the chief problem over the last two months has been the recruitment of hawker liaison staff in the Urban Services Department and the obtaining of additional staff by the Resettlement Department to assist the Urban Services Department in hawker matters. I would like to say that we seem to be arriving at the solution of this problem and I would estimate that there could be measurable improvement in hawker matters before the end of this year. I do not think that we want to be tied down to a long time-table, but we must also try to make the best use of manpower, make that manpower productive, and see that we get maximum results in the shortest time. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, through you I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG-LEEN again. Does the Chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee not agree that unless his Select Committee works to a time-table, no matter how flexible, the revised Hawker Policy 1969 will only look good on paper and will not produce the desired effect on the ground? MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, I am in full agreement with Mr. SALES that we should work to a time-table, but our time-table is first, on the policy level, a realistic one. I would be very glad to send Mr. SALES a copy of the time-table of papers which we will study. On the management side, the time-table is geared to the training of staff, and I believe with the existing staff which the Department has, they have had a most difficult and arduous task in keeping the situation under control. I think with the existing staff that we have, they have done a pretty good show. Now, I would imagine that once the additional staff has been recruited and trained, we would be able to have a time-table at the management level to show how many black spots can be cleared in Resettlement Estates and in the urban areas, and just about how soon we should be able to look a little further and reduce the number of illegal hawkers. The number of illegal hawkers, Mr. Chairman, as you are aware, is quite large, and you know my views too, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to see as many as possible of the illegal hawkers, the able-bodied hawkers, being channelled into industry instead of hawking illegally, particularly in Resettlement Estates and making life difficult for the estate residents. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am obliged to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his very thoughtful reply. Does he, as chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee, not agree at the present time when the conditions in industry are booming that it would be propitious for the Council to exercise stricter control over the question of categories of people who should be allowed to earn a living as hawkers, as part of that revised policy that he mentions? MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, this is already an established principle which has been accepted by both the Hawker Policy and Management Committees. However, the main problem is for us to have enough staff to keep the situation under control on the ground, and until we have such staff trained and experienced and able to do so, it would be very difficult for us to enforce a workable policy to channel as many illegal hawkers as possible into industry. MR. SALES: -Sir, the chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee keeps referring to the need for more manpower to implement this policy. Has he taken into account the need to mechanize our control of hawkers as has been suggested in this Council by the introduction of parking meters, which would be perhaps an effective way of controlling the allocated sites? MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, this suggestion has been mentioned time and time again in this Council, and even to me personally outside of the Council. I should be glad to refer this suggestion to the Hawker Management Select Committee who in turn will be able to consider it and make their recommendation to the Policy Committee. (8) MR. A. de O. SALES asked the following question:- What measures are normally taken to control illegal cooked food hawkers in order to protect public health and, more particularly, at the time of an outbreak of cholera? MR. H. CHEONG-LEEN, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKER POLICY SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows: Although prohibited by law from selling cooked food without a licence or from dealing in restricted foods such as meat, fish and poultry, these unlicensed hawkers operate because of insufficient control staff. The stalls used by such unlicensed hawkers are usually without proper washing or sterilization facilities for dishes and utensils, Page 77 of 237 132 133 237

Baseline (Original)

237 132 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG- LEEN for his full and informative reply to my question. Now, may I ask whether, in conjunction with the Hawker Management Select Committee, his committee is working to a time-table in the implementa- tion of the policy that has been agreed upon? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, there has been established a priority working programme and a time-table for examination of the various aspects of policy has been agreed upon. Of course, we do try to be flexible and where we consider that there should be certain necessary changes in this time-table, we do effect those changes. However, as Mr. SALES is fully aware, the chief problem over the last two months has been the recruitment of hawker liaison staff in the Urban Services Department and the obtaining of additional staff by the Resettlement Department to assist the Urban Services Department in hawker matters. I would like to say that we seem to be arriving at the solution of this problem and I would estimate that there could be measurable improvement in hawker matters before the end of this year. I do not think that we want to be tied down to a long time-table, but we must also try to make the best use of manpower, make that manpower productive, and see that we get maximum results in the shortest time. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, through you I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG-LEEN again. Does the Chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee not agree that unless his Select Committee works to a time-table, no matter how flexible, the revised Hawker Policy 1969 will only look good on paper and will not produce the desired effect on the ground? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I am in full agreement with Mr. SALES that we should work to a time-table, but our time-table is first, on the policy level, a realistic one. I would be very glad to send Mr. SALES a copy of the time-table of papers which we will study. On the management side, the time-table is geared to the training of staff, and I believe with the existing staff which the Department has, they have had a most difficult and arduous task in keeping the situation under control. I think with the existing staff that we have, they have done a pretty good show. Now, I would imagine that once the addi- tional staff has been recruited and trained, we would be able to have a time-table at the management level to show how many black spots can be cleared in Resettlement Estates and in the urban areas, and just about how soon we should be able to look a little further and reduce the number of illegal hawkers. The number of illegal hawkers, Mr. Chairman, as you are aware, is quite large, and you know my views too, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to see as many as possible of the illegal hawkers, the able-bodied hawkers, being channelled into HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 133 industry instead of hawking illegally, particularly in Resettlement Estates and making life difficult for the estate residents. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am obliged to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his very thoughful reply. Does he, as chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee, not agree at the present time when the conditions in industry are booming that it would be propitious for the Council to exercise stricter control over the question of categories of people who should be allowed to earn a living as hawkers, as part of that revised policy that he mentions? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, this is already an established principle which has been accepted by both the Hawker Policy and Management Committees. However, the main problem is for us to have enough staff to keep the situation under control on the ground, and until we have such staff trained and experienced and able to do so, it would be very difficult for us to enforce a workable policy to channel as many illegal hawkers as possible into industry. MR. SALES-Sir, the chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee keeps referring to the need for more manpower to implement this policy. Has he taken into account the need to mechanize our control of hawkers as has been suggested in this Council by the introduction of parking meters, which would be perhaps an effective way of controlling the allocated sites? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, this suggestion has been mentioned time and time again in this Council, and even to me person- ally outside of the Council. I should be glad to refer this suggestion to the Hawker Management Select Committee who in turn will be able to consider it and make their recommendation to the Policy Committee. (8) MR. A. de O. SALES asked the following question:- What measures are normally taken to control illegal cooked food hawkers in order to protect public health and, more particularly, at the time of an outbreak of cholera? MR. H. CHEONG-LEEN, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKER POLICY SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows: Although prohibited by law from selling cooked food without a licence or from dealing in restricted foods such as meat, fish and poultry, these unlicensed hawkers operate because of insufficient control staff. The stalls used by such unlicensed hawkers are usually without proper washing or sterilization facilities for dishes and utensils, Page 77 of 237

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank Mr. CHEONG- LEEN for his full and informative reply to my question. Now, may I ask whether, in conjunction with the Hawker Management Select Committee, his committee is working to a time-table in the implementa- tion of the policy that has been agreed upon?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, there has been established a priority working programme and a time-table for examination of the various aspects of policy has been agreed upon. Of course, we do try to be flexible and where we consider that there should be certain necessary changes in this time-table, we do effect those changes. However, as Mr. SALES is fully aware, the chief problem over the last two months has been the recruitment of hawker liaison staff in the Urban Services Department and the obtaining of additional staff by the Resettlement Department to assist the Urban Services Department in hawker matters. I would like to say that we seem to be arriving at the solution of this problem and I would estimate that there could be measurable improvement in hawker matters before the end of this year. I do not think that we want to be tied down to a long time-table, but we must also try to make the best use of manpower, make that manpower productive, and see that we get maximum results in the shortest time.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I am in full agreement with Mr. SALES that we should work to a time-table, but our time-table is first, on the policy level, a realistic one. I would be very glad to send Mr. SALES a copy of the time-table of papers which we will study. On the management side, the time-table is geared to the training of staff, and I believe with the existing staff which the Department has, they have had a most difficult and arduous task in keeping the situation under control. I think with the existing staff that we have, they have done a pretty good show. Now, I would imagine that once the addi- tional staff has been recruited and trained, we would be able to have a time-table at the management level to show how many black spots can be cleared in Resettlement Estates and in the urban areas, and just about how soon we should be able to look a little further and reduce the number of illegal hawkers. The number of illegal hawkers, Mr. Chairman, as you are aware, is quite large, and you know my views too, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to see as many as possible of the illegal hawkers, the able-bodied hawkers, being channelled into

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

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industry instead of hawking illegally, particularly in Resettlement Estates and making life difficult for the estate residents.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I am obliged to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his very thoughful reply. Does he, as chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee, not agree at the present time when the conditions in industry are booming that it would be propitious for the Council to exercise stricter control over the question of categories of people who should be allowed to earn a living as hawkers, as part of that revised policy that he mentions?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, this is already an established principle which has been accepted by both the Hawker Policy and Management Committees. However, the main problem is for us to have enough staff to keep the situation under control on the ground, and until we have such staff trained and experienced and able to do so, it would be very difficult for us to enforce a workable policy to channel as many illegal hawkers as possible into industry.

MR. SALES-Sir, the chairman of the Hawker Policy Select Committee keeps referring to the need for more manpower to implement this policy. Has he taken into account the need to mechanize our control of hawkers as has been suggested in this Council by the introduction of parking meters, which would be perhaps an effective way of controlling the allocated sites?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, this suggestion has been mentioned time and time again in this Council, and even to me person- ally outside of the Council. I should be glad to refer this suggestion to the Hawker Management Select Committee who in turn will be able to consider it and make their recommendation to the Policy Committee.

(8) MR. A. de O. SALES asked the following question:-

What measures are normally taken to control illegal cooked food hawkers in order to protect public health and, more particularly, at the time of an outbreak of cholera?

MR. H. CHEONG-LEEN, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKER POLICY SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:

1969 — Page 77

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