1969 — Page 64

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

would not have been put down by me. So, may I on behalf of my Select Committee ask you, Mr. Chairman, to ensure that the whole Code of Practice is issued forthwith to the Select Committee without any part being deleted?

CHAIRMAN: Certainly, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES: Thank you, and I also have your assurance, Sir, that in any matter which is directly of interest to a Select Committee of this Council no exercise of discretion on the part of your department would be made in an attempt to hide things from a Select Committee?

CHAIRMAN: I do not think there was any attempt to hide anything, Mr. SALES; I think it was just a tactical mistake.

MR. SALES: Thank you, I accept that for this occasion.

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Sales.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you state in paragraph 3 that in May 1963 the Act of the United Kingdom on “Oil in Navigable Waters" was extended in part to Hong Kong. If so, Mr. Chairman, what precautions were then taken immediately, and had these precautions been taken before the experiences we had last year on oil pollution of our beaches?

CHAIRMAN: Certainly, I think if once the law was extended that action would be taken, Mr. SALES. As far as I know, they were already working on this Code of Practice for some months and a paper was prepared some time ago; but it was liable to amendment in discussion, and after study of the documents, as you yourself suggested, from abroad. So, that it was not really a finalized document, and it still is not; it is still liable to amendment. But they took action as soon as they possibly could.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I am not talking about documents or the Marine Department taking action as soon as they could, but what I asked is this, that in May 1963 the Hong Kong Government had extended the United Kingdom Act concerning Oil in Navigable Waters. Now, between May 1963 and our first experience in Hong Kong, what precaution was taken by the relevant departments to prevent just that occurrence, oil pollution of our beaches?

CHAIRMAN: This particular bit of legislation was designed to prevent indiscriminate discharge of oil into Colony waters. What particular action the Marine Department took, I cannot say.

MR. SALES: Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to hear and may I ask for that information to be given to my Select Committee?

CHAIRMAN: I shall try to get it, Mr. SALES.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. SALES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In marshalling the information for your reply, you have certainly outlined a tremendous number of authorities on the subject presumably with a view to throwing me off scent. Now, may I enquire whether all the suggestions that have been made by the authorities which you listed, have been or are being put into practice in Hong Kong to protect the public's interest in this matter?

CHAIRMAN: They are taking any action they can to protect the public. The authorities concerned are still studying this problem of oil pollution in order to decide what is the best way of tackling it, what is the best way to get rid of this oil pollution, how to contain it, how to disperse it. There is no question of adopting all the recommendations and all the suggestions made, including those from overseas as well.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you are aware that when the situation was very bad last year, I went on a helicopter flight at the instigation of your department to examine the precautions that were then being taken, and might I suggest to you, Sir, that had not nature helped, the situation on our beaches would have been terrible and the public of Hong Kong would have suffered considerably. So, I think the Council ought to be assured that we must not depend on nature to prevent oil pollution of our beaches, that the hand of man should intervene, and as Government has at its command all the information that is available elsewhere in the world and knowing to what extent our beaches are used in the summer and what they mean to the public in Hong Kong, that all possible measures that can be taken, that Hong Kong can afford to take, are being taken to prevent an occurrence of this nature?

CHAIRMAN: I agree, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES: You agree to give me that assurance? Am I right?

CHAIRMAN: You ask if I could give this assurance?

MR. SALES: Yes.

CHAIRMAN: You asked if I could agree that everything was being done that could be done to prevent pollution of the beaches.

MR. SALES: Yes, in other words, you are assuring the Council categorically that Government is doing all in its power to protect the public interest in this matter.

CHAIRMAN: As far as I am aware, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES: Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. Mr. Chairman, is the Council aware that my questions have been re-drafted at your instigation and I have been using the word "instigation"

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL would not have been put down by me. So, may I on behalf of my Select Committee ask you, Mr. Chairman, to ensure that the whole Code of Practice is issued forthwith to the Select Committee without any part being deleted? CHAIRMAN: Certainly, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES: Thank you, and I also have your assurance, Sir, that in any matter which is directly of interest to a Select Committee of this Council no exercise of discretion on the part of your department would be made in an attempt to hide things from a Select Committee? CHAIRMAN: I do not think there was any attempt to hide anything, Mr. SALES; I think it was just a tactical mistake. MR. SALES: Thank you, I accept that for this occasion. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Sales. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you state in paragraph 3 that in May 1963 the Act of the United Kingdom on “Oil in Navigable Waters" was extended in part to Hong Kong. If so, Mr. Chairman, what precautions were then taken immediately, and had these precautions been taken before the experiences we had last year on oil pollution of our beaches? CHAIRMAN: Certainly, I think if once the law was extended that action would be taken, Mr. SALES. As far as I know, they were already working on this Code of Practice for some months and a paper was prepared some time ago; but it was liable to amendment in discussion, and after study of the documents, as you yourself suggested, from abroad. So, that it was not really a finalized document, and it still is not; it is still liable to amendment. But they took action as soon as they possibly could. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I am not talking about documents or the Marine Department taking action as soon as they could, but what I asked is this, that in May 1963 the Hong Kong Government had extended the United Kingdom Act concerning Oil in Navigable Waters. Now, between May 1963 and our first experience in Hong Kong, what precaution was taken by the relevant departments to prevent just that occurrence, oil pollution of our beaches? CHAIRMAN: This particular bit of legislation was designed to prevent indiscriminate discharge of oil into Colony waters. What particular action the Marine Department took, I cannot say. MR. SALES: Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to hear and may I ask for that information to be given to my Select Committee? CHAIRMAN: I shall try to get it, Mr. SALES. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. SALES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In marshalling the information for your reply, you have certainly outlined a tremendous number of authorities on the subject presumably with a view to throwing me off scent. Now, may I enquire whether all the suggestions that have been made by the authorities which you listed, have been or are being put into practice in Hong Kong to protect the public's interest in this matter? CHAIRMAN: They are taking any action they can to protect the public. The authorities concerned are still studying this problem of oil pollution in order to decide what is the best way of tackling it, what is the best way to get rid of this oil pollution, how to contain it, how to disperse it. There is no question of adopting all the recommendations and all the suggestions made, including those from overseas as well. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you are aware that when the situation was very bad last year, I went on a helicopter flight at the instigation of your department to examine the precautions that were then being taken, and might I suggest to you, Sir, that had not nature helped, the situation on our beaches would have been terrible and the public of Hong Kong would have suffered considerably. So, I think the Council ought to be assured that we must not depend on nature to prevent oil pollution of our beaches, that the hand of man should intervene, and as Government has at its command all the information that is available elsewhere in the world and knowing to what extent our beaches are used in the summer and what they mean to the public in Hong Kong, that all possible measures that can be taken, that Hong Kong can afford to take, are being taken to prevent an occurrence of this nature? CHAIRMAN: I agree, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES: You agree to give me that assurance? Am I right? CHAIRMAN: You ask if I could give this assurance? MR. SALES: Yes. CHAIRMAN: You asked if I could agree that everything was being done that could be done to prevent pollution of the beaches. MR. SALES: Yes, in other words, you are assuring the Council categorically that Government is doing all in its power to protect the public interest in this matter. CHAIRMAN: As far as I am aware, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES: Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. Mr. Chairman, is the Council aware that my questions have been re-drafted at your instigation and I have been using the word "instigation" Page 64 of 237

Baseline (Original)

287 108 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL would not have been put down by me. So, may I on behalf of my Select Committee ask you, Mr. Chairman, to ensure that the whole Code of Practice is issued forthwith to the Select Committee without any part being deleted? CHAIRMAN: Certainly, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES:-Thank you, and I also have your assurance, Sir, that in any matter which is directly of interest to a Select Committee of this Council no exercise of discretion on the part of your department would be made in an attempt to hide things from a Select Committee? CHAIRMAN:-I do not think there was any attempt to hide any- thing, Mr. SALES; I think it was just a tactical mistake. MR. SALES: Thank you, I accept that for this occasion. CHAIRMAN: ---Thank you, Mr. Sales. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you state in paragraph 3 that in May 1963 the Act of the United Kingdom on “Oil in Navigable Waters" was extended in part to Hong Kong. If so, Mr. Chairman, what pre- cautions were then taken immediately, and had these precautions been taken before the experiences we had last year on oil pollution of our beaches? CHAIRMAN:-Certainly, I think if once the law was extended that action would be taken, Mr. SALES. As far as I know, they were already working on this Code of Practice for some months and a paper was prepared some time ago; but it was liable to amendment in discussion, and after study of the documents, as you yourself suggested, from abroad. So, that it was not really a finalized document, and it still is not; it is still liable to amendment. But they took action as soon as they possibly could. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I am not talking about documents or the Marine Department taking action as soon as they could, but what I asked is this, that in May 1963 the Hong Kong Government had extended the United Kingdom Act concerning Oil in Navigable Waters. Now, between May 1963 and our first experience in Hong Kong, what precaution was taken by the relevant departments to pre- vent just that occurrence, oil pollution of our beaches? CHAIRMAN:-This particular bit of legislation was designed to prevent indiscriminate discharge of oil into Colony waters. What particular action the Marine Department took, I cannot say. MR. SALES: -Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to hear and may I ask for that information to be given to my Select Committee? CHAIRMAN: --I shall try to get it, Mr. SALES. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 109 MR. SALES-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In marshalling the in- formation for your reply, you have certainly outlined a tremendous number of authorities on the subject presumably with a view to throwing me off scent. Now, may I enquire whether all the sugges- tions that have been made by the authorities which you listed, have been or are being put into practice in Hong Kong to protect the public's interest in this matter? CHAIRMAN:-They are taking any action they can to protect the public. The authorities concerned are still studying this problem of oil pollution in order to decide what is the best way of tackling it, what is the best way to get rid of this oil pollution, how to contain it, how to disperse it. There is no question of adopting all the recom- mendations and all the suggestions made, including those from overseas as well. MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you are aware that when the situa- tion was very bad last year, I went on a helicopter flight at the instiga- tion of your department to examine the precautions that were then being taken, and might I suggest to you, Sir, that had not nature helped, the situation on our beaches would have been terrible and the public of Hong Kong would have suffered considerably. So, I think the Council ought to be assured that we must not depend on nature to prevent oil pollution of our beaches, that the hand of man should intervene, and as Government has at its command all the in- formation that is available elsewhere in the world and knowing to what extent our beaches are used in the summer and what they mean to the public in Hong Kong, that all possible measures that can be taken, that Hong Kong can afford to take, are being taken to prevent an occurrence of this nature? CHAIRMAN:-1 agree, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES: -You agree to give me that assurance? Am I right? CHAIRMAN: -You ask if I could give this assurance? MR. SALES:—Yes. CHAIRMAN: -You asked if I could agree that everything was being done that could be done to prevent pollution of the beaches. MR. SALES: Yes, in other words, you are assuring the Council categorically that Government is doing all in its power to protect the public interest in this matter. CHAIRMAN: ---As far as I am aware, Mr. SALES. MR. SALES: Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. Mr. Chairman, is the Council aware that my questions have been re-drafted at your instigation and I have been using the word "instigation" Page 64 of 237

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287

108

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN: Certainly, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES:-Thank you, and I also have your assurance, Sir, that in any matter which is directly of interest to a Select Committee of this Council no exercise of discretion on the part of your department would be made in an attempt to hide things from a Select Committee?

CHAIRMAN:-I do not think there was any attempt to hide any- thing, Mr. SALES; I think it was just a tactical mistake.

MR. SALES: Thank you, I accept that for this occasion.

CHAIRMAN: ---Thank you, Mr. Sales.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you state in paragraph 3 that in May 1963 the Act of the United Kingdom on “Oil in Navigable Waters" was extended in part to Hong Kong. If so, Mr. Chairman, what pre- cautions were then taken immediately, and had these precautions been taken before the experiences we had last year on oil pollution of our beaches?

CHAIRMAN:-Certainly, I think if once the law was extended that action would be taken, Mr. SALES. As far as I know, they were already working on this Code of Practice for some months and a paper was prepared some time ago; but it was liable to amendment in discussion, and after study of the documents, as you yourself suggested, from abroad. So, that it was not really a finalized document, and it still is not; it is still liable to amendment. But they took action as soon as they possibly could.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I am not talking about documents or the Marine Department taking action as soon as they could, but what I asked is this, that in May 1963 the Hong Kong Government had extended the United Kingdom Act concerning Oil in Navigable Waters. Now, between May 1963 and our first experience in Hong Kong, what precaution was taken by the relevant departments to pre- vent just that occurrence, oil pollution of our beaches?

CHAIRMAN:-This particular bit of legislation was designed to prevent indiscriminate discharge of oil into Colony waters. What particular action the Marine Department took, I cannot say.

MR. SALES: -Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to hear and may I ask for that information to be given to my Select Committee?

CHAIRMAN: --I shall try to get it, Mr. SALES.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

109

MR. SALES-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In marshalling the in- formation for your reply, you have certainly outlined a tremendous number of authorities on the subject presumably with a view to throwing me off scent. Now, may I enquire whether all the sugges- tions that have been made by the authorities which you listed, have been or are being put into practice in Hong Kong to protect the public's interest in this matter?

CHAIRMAN:-They are taking any action they can to protect the public. The authorities concerned are still studying this problem of oil pollution in order to decide what is the best way of tackling it, what is the best way to get rid of this oil pollution, how to contain it, how to disperse it. There is no question of adopting all the recom- mendations and all the suggestions made, including those from overseas as well.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, you are aware that when the situa- tion was very bad last year, I went on a helicopter flight at the instiga- tion of your department to examine the precautions that were then being taken, and might I suggest to you, Sir, that had not nature helped, the situation on our beaches would have been terrible and the public of Hong Kong would have suffered considerably. So, I think the Council ought to be assured that we must not depend on nature to prevent oil pollution of our beaches, that the hand of man should intervene, and as Government has at its command all the in- formation that is available elsewhere in the world and knowing to what extent our beaches are used in the summer and what they mean to the public in Hong Kong, that all possible measures that can be taken, that Hong Kong can afford to take, are being taken to prevent an occurrence of this nature?

CHAIRMAN:-1 agree, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES: -You agree to give me that assurance? Am I right?

CHAIRMAN: -You ask if I could give this assurance?

MR. SALES:—Yes.

CHAIRMAN: -You asked if I could agree that everything was being done that could be done to prevent pollution of the beaches.

MR. SALES: Yes, in other words, you are assuring the Council categorically that Government is doing all in its power to protect the public interest in this matter.

CHAIRMAN: ---As far as I am aware, Mr. SALES.

MR. SALES: Thank you, that is what I wanted to know. Mr. Chairman, is the Council aware that my questions have been re-drafted at your instigation and I have been using the word "instigation"

1969 — Page 64

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