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MRS. ELLIOTT:-Am I to presume that the hawkers who are actually operating did not take part in the ballot and did not get sites?
MR. BERNACCHI:-Subject to correction by the Commissioner for Resettlement, who is sitting opposite me, I think that the ballot was for the hawkers operating, not illegally operating, in that area and that it isn't a case of the hawkers not taking part in the ballot, but that the hawkers prefer to remain in their existing sites at least until the meat shops are open.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, another supplementary, can the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee reconcile the fact that there's a very long waiting list of hawkers for Sau Mau Ping Bazaar and yet there are so many pitches that don't seem to be wanted, the hawkers don't seem to want to go into them?
MR. BERNACCHI:-That, I will be pleased to refer to the Hawkers Select Committee. I feel as you do, Mrs. ELLIOTT, that if the hawkers do not want to go into them then there should be another ballot for those that do.
MRS. ELLIOTT: Sorry to give you another supplementary, but I would like to ask why these pitches are not reclaimed after a certain length of time. For example, if the hawkers ballot, are they not given, say, a month in which to decide to take up the pitch or else give it up to somebody else who wants it?
MR. BERNACCHI:-I would, in answering you, refer to my experience in my Ward area of Chai Wan where hawkers have come to me and said we are not operating in the bazaar until the meat shops are open but please don't close up our pitches and allocate our sites to somebody else. The success of the bazaar apparently, at least in resettlement areas, depends upon the opening of meat shops adjoining the bazaar.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I am all for helping people if they're in need of something and waiting, if necessary, but is it not possible to consider the people, some of them almost social welfare cases, who will take up the pitches immediately while the others who can afford to wait obviously aren't in very great need or they couldn't wait.
MR. BERNACCHI:-As I have said, that particular question I should be delighted to refer to the Hawkers Select Committee and in general I agree.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I also ask if the Commissioner for Resettlement can enquire into this allegation that was made to me. One hawker came to me and said he had the chance of a pitch for $300. I would like to have this investigated as to whether it is as the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee says; is it a case of somebody who doesn't want his pitch and sells it, or is it a case of somebody who is buying up the whole lot and selling them as a sort of racket. I would like this investigated if possible.
COMMISSIONER for Resettlement:-I am not quite sure that there is any offence being committed here so it is not quite clear what advantage there would be in investigating it.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, is it not considered a racket for somebody to buy up, say, dozens of pitches and sell them off? Is there no law against it?
CHAIRMAN:-As far as I am aware, Mrs. ELLIOTT, this particular area has not been designated as a bazaar, and, as far as I know, there is no offence.
MR. BLAKER:-A supplementary, Mr. Chairman, in view of the admitted inadequacy, in the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee's reply, of the Hawker Control Force to fulfil the functions of control, may I enquire whether discussions have been entered into with the Police with view to the Police being invited to take over supervision for the Hawker Control Force?
MR. BERNACCHI:-May I answer that. The answer really is contained in one of my other answers this afternoon, but, in general, the Police have too much on their hands at the moment to embark on any consistent control of hawkers, and I shall be advocating in one of my other answers that the Hawker Control Force be expanded as the only means of effectively bringing order out of chaos, which in the end I hope will be to the hawkers' advantage; although I know that the hawkers naturally are suspicious of any force that is trying to control them.
MR. BLAKER:-Mr. Chairman, that doesn't quite answer my question. I think that really smacks of an opinion on the part of the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee; that the Police have too much on their plate doesn't answer my question as to whether discussions have been held with the Police with this in view.
CHAIRMAN:-There have been joint discussions in fact about particular areas Mr. BLAKER and it is the Police view at the moment, that except for keeping main arteries clear, they cannot go into resettlement estates to keep hawkers under control.
MR. HU:-Chairman, I would ask one supplementary. You refer to pitches. What is the size of a pitch in hawker bazaars? Is it still 3 by 4?
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MRS. ELLIOTT:-Am I to presume that the hawkers who are actually operating did not take part in the ballot and did not get sites?
MR. BERNACCHI:--Subject to correction by the Commissioner for Resettlement, who is sitting opposite me, I think that the ballot was for the hawkers operating, not illegally operating, in that area and that it isn't a case of the hawkers not taking part in the ballot, but that the hawkers prefer to remain in their existing sites at least until the meat shops are open.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, another supplementary, can the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee reconcile the fact that there's a very long waiting list of hawkers for Sau Mau Ping Bazaar and yet there are so many pitches that don't seem to be wanted, the hawkers don't seem to want to go into them?
MR. BERNACCHI :-That, I will be pleased to refer to the Hawkers Select Committee. I feel as you do, Mrs. ELLIOTT, that if the hawkers do not want to go into them then there should be another ballot for those that do.
MRS. ELLIOTT: Sorry to give you another supplementary, but I would like to ask why these pitches are not reclaimed after a certain length of time. For example, if the hawkers ballot, are they not given, say, a month in which to decide to take up the pitch or else give it up to somebody else who wants it?
MR. BERNACCHI :—I would, in answering you, refer to my experience in my Ward area of Chai Wan where hawkers have come to me and said we are not operating in the bazaar until the meat shops are open but please don't close up our pitches and allocate our sites to somebody else. The success of the bazaar apparently, at least in resettlement areas, depends upon the opening of meat shops adjoining the bazaar.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I am all for helping people if they're in need of something and waiting, if necessary, but is it not possible to consider the people, some of them almost social welfare cases, who will take up the pitches immediately while the others who can afford to wait obviously aren't in very great need or they couldn't wait.
MR. BERNACCHI :—As I have said, that particular question I should be delighted to refer to the Hawkers Select Committee and in general I agree.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I also ask if the Commissioner for Resettlement can enquire into this allegation that was made to me. One hawker came to me and said he had the chance of a pitch for $300. I would like to have this investigated as to whether it is as the Chairman
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of the Hawkers Select Committee says; is it a case of somebody who doesn't want his pitch and sells it, or is it a case of somebody who is buying up the whole lot and selling them as a sort of racket. I would like this investigated if possible.
COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT: —I am not quite sure that there is any offence being committed here so it is not quite clear what advantage there would be in investigating it.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, is it not considered a racket for somebody to buy up, say, dozens of pitches and sell them off? Is there no law against it?
CHAIRMAN:-As far as I am aware, Mrs. ELLIOTT, this particular area has not been designated as a bazaar, and, as far as I know, there is no offence.
MR. BLAKER:—A supplementary, Mr. Chairman, in view of the admitted inadequacy, in the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Com- mittee's reply, of the Hawker Control Force to fulfil the functions of control, may I enquire whether discussions have been entered into with the Police with view to the Police being invited to take over supervi- sion for the Hawker Control Force?
MR. BERNACCHI:-May I answer that. The answer really is con- tained in one of my other answers this afternoon, but, in general, the Police have too much on their hands at the moment to embark on any consistent control of hawkers, and I shall be advocating in one of my other answers that the Hawker Control Force be expanded as the only means of effectively bringing order out of chaos, which in the end I hope will be to the hawkers' advantage; although I know that the hawkers naturally are suspicious of any force that is trying to control them.
MR. BLAKER:-Mr. Chairman, that doesn't quite answer my question. I think that really smacks of an opinion on the part of the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee; that the Police have too much on their plate doesn't answer my question as to whether discus- sions have been held with the Police with this in view.
CHAIRMAN:-There have been joint discussions in fact about partic- ular areas Mr. BLAKER and it is the Police view at the moment, that except for keeping main arteries clear, they cannot go into resettlement estates to keep hawkers under control.
MR. HU:-Chairman, I would ask one supplementary. You refer to pitches. What is the size of a pitch in hawker bazaars? Is it still 3 by 4?
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