1968 — Page 186

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

6 of 243

446

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

THE COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT replied as follows:

At 1st February, 1969 there were altogether 349,000 persons living in resettlement estates at densities of less than 24 sq. ft. for each adult. Of this total, 7,100 persons were at less than 12 sq. ft., 14,700 persons were at less than 14 sq. ft., 43,200 persons were at less than 16 sq. ft., and 83,000 persons were at less than 18 sq. ft. These figures are, of course, cumulative.

Since 31st January, 1966, 96,600 people have been moved to larger rooms. The number who have been offered larger rooms is considerably greater since the average rate of refusal of such offers is 30%. At present 20,000 places a year in new blocks are reserved for the relief of over-crowding, which by the process of decantation would enable around 40,000 people a year to be allocated larger rooms.

The qualifying densities for the allocation of larger or additional rooms in the same or in another estate have been steadily improving. At present, families living at densities varying from 12 sq. ft. for each adult at Shek Kip Mei Estate to over 20 sq. ft. at Lo Fu Ngam and Wang Tau Hom estates, can be offered a larger room in the same estates; and in almost all estates families at less than 24 sq. ft. can be offered a larger room in an outlying estate. Progress in relieving overcrowding will be affected by the willingness of the families concerned to move to the other estates available, and by the numbers who move from resettlement to other forms of housing. As members are aware resettlement tenants who can afford it are being actively encouraged to move to Government Low Cost Housing or to Housing Authority accommodation; and from past experience it is likely that what are now outlying estates will in the course of time become more popular. But it is not possible at this stage to make an accurate assessment of these factors or, consequently, to predict when all overcrowding will be relieved.

DR. BELL: --Mr. Chairman, could I ask the Commissioner whether, in assessing the amount of resettlement accommodation that was to be built for 6 years, the Housing Board took into account these 349,000 persons who are living at less than 24 sq. ft.?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, the answer is yes to that question, but I feel myself that the crux of the matter is to persuade more persons to move to other accommodation, and unless we can do that, we are not going to make any significant improvement in the situation. The answer may not necessarily be to increase the quota for the relief of over-crowding if the people do not, in fact, move.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

447

DR. BELL: ---Mr. Chairman, has consideration been given to keeping entirely one Resettlement Estate which is in close proximity, I am thinking particularly of Pak Tin Estate, whether consideration has been given to keeping the entire Estate for the relief of over-crowding in the older estates which are all situated in fairly close proximity to that one?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: —Mr. Chairman, as I recollect, Dr. BELL made that proposal in the course of the Annual Debate and I said it would be taken into account. I think myself that it may be possible, but there are other considerations which I think Dr. BELL is aware of, and it certainly will be considered most carefully as a possibility.

DR. BELL: --I ask this particularly, because I noticed a difference in the figures in the answers that have been given here. Mr. BERNACCHI referred to, I think in his answer, somewhere about 6,000 people having already been moved into Pak Tin, whereas in the answer given to Mrs. ELLIOTT you mentioned 3,500 people. I understand the difference arose where those other people were coming from?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --I think that the only thing I can say to that, Mr. Chairman, is I am responsible for my answer but I am not responsible for Mrs. ELLIOTT'S.

MR. BERNACCHI: --Well, I have a supplementary myself and that is, 35%, that is what it comes to, is almost a terrifying figure, and can consideration be given to raising the decantation of people higher up in the list of priorities, so that it is almost priority 1 or 2 until that figure is considerably reduced?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, it was considered at some length when this last review was held about resettlement priorities. There were a lot of arguments backwards and forwards about it, but the final decision was that it should stay where it was. I shall be perfectly glad to put it back to the Policy Select Committee for their consideration.

MR. BERNACCHI: --I may be wrong, but do not think at the time that the Policy Select Committee had this figure which, in fact, means almost 35% of the total number resettled that are living at less than 24 sq. ft., the minimum density allowed.

MR. FORSGATE: --(noting that all members of the public had left) Mr. Chairman, as this is no longer a public meeting could we resolve that members can smoke? (Laughter).

Page 186 of 24

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6 of 243 446 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL THE COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT replied as follows: At 1st February, 1969 there were altogether 349,000 persons living in resettlement estates at densities of less than 24 sq. ft. for each adult. Of this total, 7,100 persons were at less than 12 sq. ft., 14,700 persons were at less than 14 sq. ft., 43,200 persons were at less than 16 sq. ft., and 83,000 persons were at less than 18 sq. ft. These figures are, of course, cumulative. Since 31st January, 1966, 96,600 people have been moved to larger rooms. The number who have been offered larger rooms is considerably greater since the average rate of refusal of such offers is 30%. At present 20,000 places a year in new blocks are reserved for the relief of over-crowding, which by the process of decantation would enable around 40,000 people a year to be allocated larger rooms. The qualifying densities for the allocation of larger or additional rooms in the same or in another estate have been steadily improving. At present, families living at densities varying from 12 sq. ft. for each adult at Shek Kip Mei Estate to over 20 sq. ft. at Lo Fu Ngam and Wang Tau Hom estates, can be offered a larger room in the same estates; and in almost all estates families at less than 24 sq. ft. can be offered a larger room in an outlying estate. Progress in relieving overcrowding will be affected by the willingness of the families concerned to move to the other estates available, and by the numbers who move from resettlement to other forms of housing. As members are aware resettlement tenants who can afford it are being actively encouraged to move to Government Low Cost Housing or to Housing Authority accommodation; and from past experience it is likely that what are now outlying estates will in the course of time become more popular. But it is not possible at this stage to make an accurate assessment of these factors or, consequently, to predict when all overcrowding will be relieved. DR. BELL: --Mr. Chairman, could I ask the Commissioner whether, in assessing the amount of resettlement accommodation that was to be built for 6 years, the Housing Board took into account these 349,000 persons who are living at less than 24 sq. ft.? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, the answer is yes to that question, but I feel myself that the crux of the matter is to persuade more persons to move to other accommodation, and unless we can do that, we are not going to make any significant improvement in the situation. The answer may not necessarily be to increase the quota for the relief of over-crowding if the people do not, in fact, move. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 447 DR. BELL: ---Mr. Chairman, has consideration been given to keeping entirely one Resettlement Estate which is in close proximity, I am thinking particularly of Pak Tin Estate, whether consideration has been given to keeping the entire Estate for the relief of over-crowding in the older estates which are all situated in fairly close proximity to that one? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: —Mr. Chairman, as I recollect, Dr. BELL made that proposal in the course of the Annual Debate and I said it would be taken into account. I think myself that it may be possible, but there are other considerations which I think Dr. BELL is aware of, and it certainly will be considered most carefully as a possibility. DR. BELL: --I ask this particularly, because I noticed a difference in the figures in the answers that have been given here. Mr. BERNACCHI referred to, I think in his answer, somewhere about 6,000 people having already been moved into Pak Tin, whereas in the answer given to Mrs. ELLIOTT you mentioned 3,500 people. I understand the difference arose where those other people were coming from? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --I think that the only thing I can say to that, Mr. Chairman, is I am responsible for my answer but I am not responsible for Mrs. ELLIOTT'S. MR. BERNACCHI: --Well, I have a supplementary myself and that is, 35%, that is what it comes to, is almost a terrifying figure, and can consideration be given to raising the decantation of people higher up in the list of priorities, so that it is almost priority 1 or 2 until that figure is considerably reduced? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, it was considered at some length when this last review was held about resettlement priorities. There were a lot of arguments backwards and forwards about it, but the final decision was that it should stay where it was. I shall be perfectly glad to put it back to the Policy Select Committee for their consideration. MR. BERNACCHI: --I may be wrong, but do not think at the time that the Policy Select Committee had this figure which, in fact, means almost 35% of the total number resettled that are living at less than 24 sq. ft., the minimum density allowed. MR. FORSGATE: --(noting that all members of the public had left) Mr. Chairman, as this is no longer a public meeting could we resolve that members can smoke? (Laughter). Page 186 of 24

Baseline (Original)

6 of 243 446 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL THE COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT replied as follows: At 1st February, 1969 there were altogether 349,000 persons living in resettlement estates at densities of less than 24 sq. ft. for each adult. Of this total, 7,100 persons were at less than 12 sq. ft., 14,700 persons were at less than 14 sq. ft., 43,200 persons were at less than 16 sq. ft., and 83,000 persons were at less than 18 sq. ft. These figures are, of course, cumulative. Since 31st January, 1966, 96,600 people have been moved to larger rooms. The number who have been offered larger rooms is considerably greater since the average rate of refusal of such offers is 30%. At present 20,000 places a year in new blocks are reserved for the relief of over- crowding, which by the process of decantation would enable around 40,000 people a year to be allocated larger rooms. The qualifying densities for the allocation of larger or addi- tional rooms in the same or in another estate have been steadily improving. At present, families living at densities varying from 12 sq. ft. for each adult at Shek Kip Mei Estate to over 20 sq. ft. at Lo Fu Ngam and Wang Tau Hom estates, can be offered a larger room in the same estates; and in almost all estates families at less than 24 sq. ft. can be offered a larger room in an outlying estate. Progress in relieving overcrowding will be affected by the willingness of the families concerned to move to the other estates available, and by the numbers who move from resettlement to other forms of housing. As members are aware resettlement tenants who can afford it are being actively encouraged to move to Government Low Cost Housing or to Housing Authority accommodation; and from past experience it is likely that what are now outlying estates will in the course of time become more popular. But it is not possible at this stage to make an accurate assessment of these factors or, consequently, to predict when all overcrowding will be relieved. DR. BELL: --Mr. Chairman, could I ask the Commissioner whether, in assessing the amount of resettlement accommodation that was to be built for 6 years, the Housing Board took into account these 349,000 persons who are living at less than 24 sq. ft.? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, the answer is yes to that question, but I feel myself that the crux of the matter is to persuade more persons to move to other accommodation, and unless we HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 447 can do that, we are not going to make any significant improvement in the situation. The answer may not necessarily be to increase the quota for the relief of over-crowding if the people do not, in fact, move. DR. BELL: ---Mr. Chairman, has consideration been given to keeping entirely one Resettlement Estate which is in close proximity, I am think- ing particularly of Pak Tin Estate, whether consideration has been given to keeping the entire Estate for the relief of over-crowding in the older estates which are all situated in fairly close proximity to that one? COMMISSIONER for RESETTLEMENT: —Mr. Chairman, as I recollect, Dr. BELL made that proposal in the course of the Annual Debate and I said it would be taken into account. I think myself that it may be possible, but there are other considerations which I think Dr. BELL is aware of, and it certainly will be considered most carefully as a possibility. DR. BELL:-I ask this particularly, because I noticed a difference in the figures in the answers that have been given here. Mr. BERNACCHI referred to, I think in his answer, somewhere about 6,000 people having already been moved into Pak Tin, whereas in the answer given to Mrs. ELLIOTT you mentioned 3,500 people. I understand the difference arose where those other people were coming from? COMMISSIONER for ResettlemENT:-I think that the only thing I can say to that, Mr. Chairman, is I am responsible for my answer but I am not responsible for Mrs. ELLIOTT'S. MR. BERNACCHI:-Well, I have a supplementary myself and that is, 35%, that is what it comes to, is almost a terrifying figure, and can consideration be given to raising the decantation of people higher up in the list of priorities, so that it is almost priority 1 or 2 until that figure is considerable reduced? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, it was con- sidered at some length when this last review was held about resettlement priorities. There were a lot of arguments backwards and forwards about it, but the final decision was that it should stay where it was. I shall be perfectly glad to put it back to the Policy Select Committee for their consideration. MR. BERNACCHI:-I may be wrong, but do not think at the time that the Policy Select Committee had this figure which, in fact, means almost 35% of the total number resettled that are living at less than 24 sq. ft., the minimum density allowed. MR. FORSGATE:-(noting that all members of the public had left) Mr. Chairman, as this is no longer a public meeting could we resolve that members can smoke? (Laughter). Page 186 of 24)

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6 of 243

446

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

THE COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT replied as follows:

Since 31st January, 1966, 96,600 people have been moved to larger rooms. The number who have been offered larger rooms is considerably greater since the average rate of refusal of such offers is 30%. At present 20,000 places a year in new blocks are reserved for the relief of over- crowding, which by the process of decantation would enable around 40,000 people a year to be allocated larger

rooms.

The qualifying densities for the allocation of larger or addi- tional rooms in the same or in another estate have been steadily improving. At present, families living at densities varying from 12 sq. ft. for each adult at Shek Kip Mei Estate to over 20 sq. ft. at Lo Fu Ngam and Wang Tau Hom estates, can be offered a larger room in the same estates; and in almost all estates families at less than 24 sq. ft. can be offered a larger room in an outlying estate. Progress in relieving overcrowding will be affected by the willingness of the families concerned to move to the other estates available, and by the numbers who move from resettlement to other forms of housing. As members are aware resettlement tenants who can afford it are being actively encouraged to move to Government Low Cost Housing or to Housing Authority accommodation; and from past experience it is likely that what are now outlying estates will in the course of time become more popular. But it is not possible at this stage to make an accurate assessment of these factors or, consequently, to predict when all overcrowding will be relieved.

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, the answer is yes to that question, but I feel myself that the crux of the matter is to persuade more persons to move to other accommodation, and unless we

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

447

can do that, we are not going to make any significant improvement in the situation. The answer may not necessarily be to increase the quota for the relief of over-crowding if the people do not, in fact, move.

DR. BELL: ---Mr. Chairman, has consideration been given to keeping entirely one Resettlement Estate which is in close proximity, I am think- ing particularly of Pak Tin Estate, whether consideration has been given to keeping the entire Estate for the relief of over-crowding in the older estates which are all situated in fairly close proximity to that one?

COMMISSIONER for RESETTLEMENT: —Mr. Chairman, as I recollect, Dr. BELL made that proposal in the course of the Annual Debate and I said it would be taken into account. I think myself that it may be possible, but there are other considerations which I think Dr. BELL is aware of, and it certainly will be considered most carefully as a possibility.

DR. BELL:-I ask this particularly, because I noticed a difference in the figures in the answers that have been given here. Mr. BERNACCHI referred to, I think in his answer, somewhere about 6,000 people having already been moved into Pak Tin, whereas in the answer given to Mrs. ELLIOTT you mentioned 3,500 people. I understand the difference arose where those other people were coming from?

COMMISSIONER for ResettlemENT:-I think that the only thing I can say to that, Mr. Chairman, is I am responsible for my answer but I am not responsible for Mrs. ELLIOTT'S.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Well, I have a supplementary myself and that is, 35%, that is what it comes to, is almost a terrifying figure, and can consideration be given to raising the decantation of people higher up in the list of priorities, so that it is almost priority 1 or 2 until that figure is considerable reduced?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: --Mr. Chairman, it was con- sidered at some length when this last review was held about resettlement priorities. There were a lot of arguments backwards and forwards about it, but the final decision was that it should stay where it was. I shall be perfectly glad to put it back to the Policy Select Committee for their consideration.

MR. BERNACCHI:-I may be wrong, but do not think at the time that the Policy Select Committee had this figure which, in fact, means almost 35% of the total number resettled that are living at less than 24 sq. ft., the minimum density allowed.

MR. FORSGATE:-(noting that all members of the public had left) Mr. Chairman, as this is no longer a public meeting could we resolve that members can smoke? (Laughter).

1968 — Page 186

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