1968 — Page 119

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 119 of

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Page 119 of 243

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

What measures did we take with various Government Departments such as Social Welfare Department, Labour Department, Education Department, etc. in order to solve the problem of such young unsuccessful applicants?

MR. B. A. BERNACCHI, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKERS SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:-

This question concerns the issue of hawker licences to persons under 21 years of age.

Briefly stated, the policy of the Hawkers Select Committee is that the minimum age for the grant of, or succession to, hawker licences is usually 21. All applications from persons under that age are referred for careful scrutiny by the Delegated Member of the Hawkers Select Committee and only if there are special circumstances should such Delegated Member grant the application. This policy does not prevent a stall licensee from employing not more than two authorized assistants, one of whom is permitted to be a member of his family under 16, on the clear understanding that both assistants must remain in attendance at the stall and not roam independently.

Comparatively few applications are received from persons under 21, probably because this policy is well known, but as far as is possible to ascertain the number of such applications for 1966, 1967 and 1968 are 54, 57 and 5 respectively. The reason for the sharp drop in the number of applications during 1968 is not known, but presumably this has something to do with a drop in the desire generally to take out licences. One has only to go on the streets to see that a large number of unlicensed hawkers are in fact juveniles.

The answer to the last part of your question is that out of the total of 116 applications received 76 were approved, 39 were refused and one is still pending. No further action is at present taken by the Urban Services Department when applications are refused except in those cases where Delegated Members make specific requests that the applicants should be referred to a particular department, for example, the Social Welfare or Labour Departments. This Council not having any jurisdiction over Social Welfare, Labour or even Education Departments, it is hard to see what more can be done with young applicants who are refused licences, than, to refer them, if the circumstances should warrant, to those or other departments.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

215

This Council and in particular the Hawkers Select Committee has repeatedly voiced the opinion that there should be more trade schools and opportunities for technical education generally in Hong Kong. Too often in the past a hawker licence has been regarded as an easy way out to enable the applicant to make a living when in fact he could and should be given instruction to enable him to obtain a more satisfactory and worthwhile employment.

MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, arising from the answer given to the Council by Mr. BERNACCHI, I would say, if I may, that about three years ago at the Annual Debate, I did mention that the hawker problem is a social one, and that we should get the assistance of other government departments to solve this problem. Have we done anything since then to join with other government departments to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: We have drawn the attention of the departments concerned to the problem, Mr. Hu.

MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, what departments did I mention in my annual speech?

CHAIRMAN: I should imagine you would ask the Labour Department in particular, and the Social Welfare Department.

MR. HU: And we have done nothing to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: It is not our business to solve it, Mr. Hu, merely to refer it to the departments responsible for giving the sort of training which you would like to see for hawkers and others.

MR. HU: In your view, whose responsibility is it? The Government's responsibility to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: Certainly, certain departments have various aspects to deal with, and surely there must be co-ordination somewhere along the line.

MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, you still have not answered my question. (Laughter). Whose responsibility is it to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: I should imagine as various departments are involved, Mr. Hu, that the Secretariat must be the co-ordinating authority, if co-ordination is required. You understand that your question is out of order? (Laughter).

MR. HU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I anticipated that. (Laughter).

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Page 119 of 243 Page 119 of 243 214 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL What measures did we take with various Government Departments such as Social Welfare Department, Labour Department, Education Department, etc. in order to solve the problem of such young unsuccessful applicants? MR. B. A. BERNACCHI, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKERS SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:- This question concerns the issue of hawker licences to persons under 21 years of age. Briefly stated, the policy of the Hawkers Select Committee is that the minimum age for the grant of, or succession to, hawker licences is usually 21. All applications from persons under that age are referred for careful scrutiny by the Delegated Member of the Hawkers Select Committee and only if there are special circumstances should such Delegated Member grant the application. This policy does not prevent a stall licensee from employing not more than two authorized assistants, one of whom is permitted to be a member of his family under 16, on the clear understanding that both assistants must remain in attendance at the stall and not roam independently. Comparatively few applications are received from persons under 21, probably because this policy is well known, but as far as is possible to ascertain the number of such applications for 1966, 1967 and 1968 are 54, 57 and 5 respectively. The reason for the sharp drop in the number of applications during 1968 is not known, but presumably this has something to do with a drop in the desire generally to take out licences. One has only to go on the streets to see that a large number of unlicensed hawkers are in fact juveniles. The answer to the last part of your question is that out of the total of 116 applications received 76 were approved, 39 were refused and one is still pending. No further action is at present taken by the Urban Services Department when applications are refused except in those cases where Delegated Members make specific requests that the applicants should be referred to a particular department, for example, the Social Welfare or Labour Departments. This Council not having any jurisdiction over Social Welfare, Labour or even Education Departments, it is hard to see what more can be done with young applicants who are refused licences, than, to refer them, if the circumstances should warrant, to those or other departments. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 215 This Council and in particular the Hawkers Select Committee has repeatedly voiced the opinion that there should be more trade schools and opportunities for technical education generally in Hong Kong. Too often in the past a hawker licence has been regarded as an easy way out to enable the applicant to make a living when in fact he could and should be given instruction to enable him to obtain a more satisfactory and worthwhile employment. MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, arising from the answer given to the Council by Mr. BERNACCHI, I would say, if I may, that about three years ago at the Annual Debate, I did mention that the hawker problem is a social one, and that we should get the assistance of other government departments to solve this problem. Have we done anything since then to join with other government departments to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: We have drawn the attention of the departments concerned to the problem, Mr. Hu. MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, what departments did I mention in my annual speech? CHAIRMAN: I should imagine you would ask the Labour Department in particular, and the Social Welfare Department. MR. HU: And we have done nothing to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: It is not our business to solve it, Mr. Hu, merely to refer it to the departments responsible for giving the sort of training which you would like to see for hawkers and others. MR. HU: In your view, whose responsibility is it? The Government's responsibility to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: Certainly, certain departments have various aspects to deal with, and surely there must be co-ordination somewhere along the line. MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, you still have not answered my question. (Laughter). Whose responsibility is it to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: I should imagine as various departments are involved, Mr. Hu, that the Secretariat must be the co-ordinating authority, if co-ordination is required. You understand that your question is out of order? (Laughter). MR. HU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I anticipated that. (Laughter). Page 119 of 243 243

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Page 119 of 243 Page 119 of 243 214 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL What measures did we take with various Government Departments such as Social Welfare Department, Labour Department, Education Department, etc. in order to solve the problem of such young unsuccessful applicants? MR. B. A. BERNACCHI, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKERS SELECT COM- MITTEE, replied as follows:- This question concerns the issue of hawker licences to persons under 21 years of age. Briefly stated, the policy of the Hawkers Select Committee is that the minimum age for the grant of, or succession to, hawker licences is usually 21. All applications from persons under that age are referred for careful scrutiny by the Delegated Member of the Hawkers Select Committee and only if there are special circumstances should such Delegated Member grant the application. This policy does not prevent a stall licensee from employing not more than two authorized assistants, one of whom is permitted to be a member of his family under 16, on the clear under- standing that both assistants must remain in attendance at the stall and not roam independently. Comparatively few applications are received from persons under 21, probably because this policy is well known, but as far as is possible to ascertain the number of such applications for 1966, 1967 and 1968 are 54, 57 and 5 respectively. The reason for the sharp drop in the number of applications during 1968 is not known, but presumably this has something to do with a drop in the desire generally to take out licences. One has only to go on the streets to see that a large number of unlicensed hawkers are in fact juveniles. The answer to the last part of your question is that out of the total of 116 applications received 76 were approved, 39 were refused and one is still pending. No further action is at present taken by the Urban Services Department when applications are refused except in those cases where Delegated Members make specific requests that the appli- cants should be referred to a particular departments, for example, the Social Welfare or Labour Departments. This Council not having any jurisdiction over Social Welfare, Labour or even Education Departments, it is hard to see what more can be done with young applicants who are refused licences, than, to refer them, if the circum- stances should warrant, to those or other departments. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 215 This Council and in particular the Hawkers Select Com- mittee has repeatedly voiced the opinion that there should be more trade schools and opportunities for technical education generally in Hong Kong. Too often in the past a hawker licence has been regarded as an easy way out to enable the applicant to make a living when in fact he could and should be given instruction to enable him to obtain a more satisfactory and worthwhile employment. MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, arising from the answer given to the Council by Mr. BERNACCHI, I would say, if I may, that about three years ago at the Annual Debate, I did mention that the hawker problem is a social one, and that we should get the assistance of other government departments to solve this problem. Have we done anything since then to join with other government departments to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: -We have drawn the attention of the departments concerned to the problem, Mr. Hu. MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, what departments did I mention in my annual speech? CHAIRMAN: --I should imagine you would ask the Labour Depart- ment in particular, and the Social Welfare Department. MR. HU: ---And we have done nothing to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: It is not our business to solve it, Mr. Hu, merely to refer it to the departments responsible for giving the sort of training which you would like to see for hawkers and others. MR. HU:-In your view, whose responsibility is it? The Govern- ment's responsibility to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: ---Certainly, certain departments have various aspects to deal with, and surely there must be co-ordination somewhere along the line. MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, you still have not answered my question. (Laughter). Whose responsibility is it to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem? CHAIRMAN: --I should imagine as various departments are involved, Mr. Hu, that the Secretariat must be the co-ordinating authority, if co-ordination is required. You understand that your question is out of order? (Laughter). MR. HU:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I anticipated that. (Laughter).

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Page 119 of

243

Page 119 of 243

214

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. B. A. BERNACCHI, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKERS SELECT COM- MITTEE, replied as follows:-

This question concerns the issue of hawker licences to persons

under 21 years of age.

Briefly stated, the policy of the Hawkers Select Committee is that the minimum age for the grant of, or succession to, hawker licences is usually 21. All applications from persons under that age are referred for careful scrutiny by the Delegated Member of the Hawkers Select Committee and only if there are special circumstances should such Delegated Member grant the application. This policy does not prevent a stall licensee from employing not more than two authorized assistants, one of whom is permitted to be a member of his family under 16, on the clear under- standing that both assistants must remain in attendance at the stall and not roam independently.

The answer to the last part of your question is that out of the total of 116 applications received 76 were approved, 39 were refused and one is still pending. No further action is at present taken by the Urban Services Department when applications are refused except in those cases where Delegated Members make specific requests that the appli- cants should be referred to a particular departments, for example, the Social Welfare or Labour Departments. This Council not having any jurisdiction over Social Welfare, Labour or even Education Departments, it is hard to see what more can be done with young applicants who are refused licences, than, to refer them, if the circum- stances should warrant, to those or other departments.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

215

This Council and in particular the Hawkers Select Com- mittee has repeatedly voiced the opinion that there should be more trade schools and opportunities for technical education generally in Hong Kong. Too often in the past a hawker licence has been regarded as an easy way out to enable the applicant to make a living when in fact he could and should be given instruction to enable him to obtain a more satisfactory and worthwhile employment.

CHAIRMAN: -We have drawn the attention of the departments concerned to the problem, Mr. Hu.

MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, what departments did I mention in my annual speech?

CHAIRMAN: --I should imagine you would ask the Labour Depart- ment in particular, and the Social Welfare Department.

MR. HU: ---And we have done nothing to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: It is not our business to solve it, Mr. Hu, merely to refer it to the departments responsible for giving the sort of training which you would like to see for hawkers and others.

MR. HU:-In your view, whose responsibility is it? The Govern- ment's responsibility to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: ---Certainly, certain departments have various aspects to deal with, and surely there must be co-ordination somewhere along the line.

MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, you still have not answered my question. (Laughter). Whose responsibility is it to co-ordinate the various departments to solve this problem?

CHAIRMAN: --I should imagine as various departments are involved, Mr. Hu, that the Secretariat must be the co-ordinating authority, if co-ordination is required. You understand that your question is out of order? (Laughter).

1968 — Page 119

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