1967 — Page 189

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 189 of 259

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

that mean that it will be installed next year, or does it merely mean that it will be installed if we come to that item, the other items ahead of it taking priority?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, there is perhaps a point that I ought to clarify. First, installation of street lighting is the responsibility not of the Urban Council, so it comes under a different vote; but installation of floodlighting in recreation areas is the responsibility of the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee and if that Select Committee has decided that such installation should be carried out in the year starting from the 1st April, 1968, Mr. BERNACCHI can have the assurance of the Select Committee that it will be so done in that fiscal year.

MR. BERNACCHI: -Thank you very much. You say, "I would like to say that street lighting is not the direct responsibility of this Council". I believe that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee. If this is not the direct responsibility of this Council, how is it that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee and now the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee is consulted about it?

MR. SALES: Sir, I would be pleased to clarify the position. It is true that there was before a Street Lighting Select Committee. At that time there were some thirty-seven or more Select Committees in the Urban Council. When the Urban Council was re-organized, insofar as Select Committees were concerned, as Mr. BERNACCHI might recall because he was a member of the Committee which carried out the re-organization, the number of Select Committees was reduced to fifteen; since it has grown to seventeen. Now, the street lighting aspect of the Urban Council's responsibility so far as advising is concerned was then absorbed by the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee. Formerly to the best of my knowledge and belief, the Street Lighting Select Committee merely acted in an advisory capacity insofar as the street lighting programme was concerned. There has been no surrender of the authority of the Urban Council in that respect. We are still consulted. In point of fact, we are able to initiate lighting programmes by making recommendations to the authorities concerned.

MR. BERNACCHI: ---When you say to the authorities concerned, is it to the electric light companies or to the Government?

MR. SALES: Sir, the electric light companies take their instructions from the Government, and in that respect I think the competent authority is, if I am not mistaken, the Public Works Department. The Urban Council is concerned with lighting and the Urban Council, through the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee, goes through the programme rather carefully, not only because there is a need to light new areas, but because there is a need to increase the lighting in certain areas for security reasons and, in the minds of certain Urban Councillors, also for moral reasons.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

353

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, with the permission of Mr. BERNACCHI, may I pose a couple of supplementaries arising out of the answer given by MR. SALES?

This question of the direct responsibility for street lighting, as I recall, was discussed many years ago and one of the reasons why many of us in the Council had agreed that the Street Lighting Select Committee would be absorbed within the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee was that at that time the responsibility of the Urban Council was primarily in an advisory capacity. An important reason given at that time as to why the Urban Council should be in an advisory capacity was the question of security. Apparently, the police had a vested interest in the whole aspect of street lighting. At that time the question of security was, I will agree, paramount, but surely in the light of progress in the provision of street lighting, it seems that street lighting should now be more a matter of the provision of urban amenities, and I think that this matter does deserve review by Government and also our Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee to see whether or not the time has come for this whole matter of street lighting to be considered more in the light of providing an amenity to the public, and I would suggest that this be considered by the Select Committee. Could I have an assurance that this will be considered, Mr. Chairman, by that Committee. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, you have made your point.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I be permitted to ask Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his second question. He said he had a couple of questions. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: -I think we have departed far enough away from the original question about lighting in Chai Wan, and perhaps Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's second question could be directed to Mr. SALES before his Select Committee sits?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, would it be fair to say that you have not even given me a chance to pose my second question, which is probably quite relevant. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: -You are quite right, Sir; if it concerns Chai Wan I apologize.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: ---Now, in the case of provision of street lighting in Chai Wan, Mr. Chairman, (Laughter) which section in the Public Works Department has direct responsibility to accept the recommendations in providing street lighting in that district?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I answer that question? To the best of my knowledge it is the same section as would consider lighting in any other district in Hong Kong. (Laughter).

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Page 189 of 259 352 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL that mean that it will be installed next year, or does it merely mean that it will be installed if we come to that item, the other items ahead of it taking priority? MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, there is perhaps a point that I ought to clarify. First, installation of street lighting is the responsibility not of the Urban Council, so it comes under a different vote; but installation of floodlighting in recreation areas is the responsibility of the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee and if that Select Committee has decided that such installation should be carried out in the year starting from the 1st April, 1968, Mr. BERNACCHI can have the assurance of the Select Committee that it will be so done in that fiscal year. MR. BERNACCHI: -Thank you very much. You say, "I would like to say that street lighting is not the direct responsibility of this Council". I believe that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee. If this is not the direct responsibility of this Council, how is it that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee and now the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee is consulted about it? MR. SALES: Sir, I would be pleased to clarify the position. It is true that there was before a Street Lighting Select Committee. At that time there were some thirty-seven or more Select Committees in the Urban Council. When the Urban Council was re-organized, insofar as Select Committees were concerned, as Mr. BERNACCHI might recall because he was a member of the Committee which carried out the re-organization, the number of Select Committees was reduced to fifteen; since it has grown to seventeen. Now, the street lighting aspect of the Urban Council's responsibility so far as advising is concerned was then absorbed by the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee. Formerly to the best of my knowledge and belief, the Street Lighting Select Committee merely acted in an advisory capacity insofar as the street lighting programme was concerned. There has been no surrender of the authority of the Urban Council in that respect. We are still consulted. In point of fact, we are able to initiate lighting programmes by making recommendations to the authorities concerned. MR. BERNACCHI: ---When you say to the authorities concerned, is it to the electric light companies or to the Government? MR. SALES: Sir, the electric light companies take their instructions from the Government, and in that respect I think the competent authority is, if I am not mistaken, the Public Works Department. The Urban Council is concerned with lighting and the Urban Council, through the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee, goes through the programme rather carefully, not only because there is a need to light new areas, but because there is a need to increase the lighting in certain areas for security reasons and, in the minds of certain Urban Councillors, also for moral reasons. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 353 MR. CHEONG-LEEN: -Mr. Chairman, with the permission of Mr. BERNACCHI, may I pose a couple of supplementaries arising out of the answer given by MR. SALES? This question of the direct responsibility for street lighting, as I recall, was discussed many years ago and one of the reasons why many of us in the Council had agreed that the Street Lighting Select Committee would be absorbed within the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee was that at that time the responsibility of the Urban Council was primarily in an advisory capacity. An important reason given at that time as to why the Urban Council should be in an advisory capacity was the question of security. Apparently, the police had a vested interest in the whole aspect of street lighting. At that time the question of security was, I will agree, paramount, but surely in the light of progress in the provision of street lighting, it seems that street lighting should now be more a matter of the provision of urban amenities, and I think that this matter does deserve review by Government and also our Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee to see whether or not the time has come for this whole matter of street lighting to be considered more in the light of providing an amenity to the public, and I would suggest that this be considered by the Select Committee. Could I have an assurance that this will be considered, Mr. Chairman, by that Committee. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, you have made your point. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I be permitted to ask Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his second question. He said he had a couple of questions. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: -I think we have departed far enough away from the original question about lighting in Chai Wan, and perhaps Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's second question could be directed to Mr. SALES before his Select Committee sits? MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, would it be fair to say that you have not even given me a chance to pose my second question, which is probably quite relevant. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: -You are quite right, Sir; if it concerns Chai Wan I apologize. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: ---Now, in the case of provision of street lighting in Chai Wan, Mr. Chairman, (Laughter) which section in the Public Works Department has direct responsibility to accept the recommendations in providing street lighting in that district? MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I answer that question? To the best of my knowledge it is the same section as would consider lighting in any other district in Hong Kong. (Laughter). Page 189 of 259

Baseline (Original)

of 259 Page 189 of 259 352 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL that mean that it will be installed next year, or does it merely mean that it will be installed if we come to that item, the other items ahead of it taking priority? MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, there is perhaps a point that I ought to clarify. First, installation of street lighting is the responsibility not of the Urban Council, so it comes under a different vote; but installation of floodlighting in recreation areas is the responsibility of the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee and if that Select Committee has decided that such installation should be carried out in the year starting from the 1st April, 1968, Mr. BERNACCHI can have the assurance of the Select Committee that it will be so done in that fiscal year. MR. BERNACCHI:-Thank you very much. You say, "I would like to say that street lighting is not the direct responsibility of this Council". I believe that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee. If this is not the direct responsibility of this Council, how is it that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee and now the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee is consulted about it? MR. SALES: Sir, I would be pleased to clarify the position. It is true that there was before a Street Lighting Select Committee. At that time there were some thirty-seven or more Select Committees in the Urban Council. When the Urban Council was re-organized, insofar as Select Committees were concerned, as Mr. BERNACCHI might recall because he was a member of the Committee which carried out the re- organization, the number of Select Committees was reduced to fifteen; since it has grown to seventeen. Now, the street lighting aspect of the Urban Council's responsibility so far as advising is concerned was then absorbed by the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee. Formerly to the best of my knowledge and belief, the Street Lighting Select Committee merely acted in an advisory capacity insofar as the street lighting programme was concerned. There has been no surrender of the authority of the Urban Council in that respect. We are still consulted. In point of fact, we are able to initiate lighting programmes by making recommendations to the authorities concerned. MR. BERNACCHI: ---When you say to the authorities concerned, is it to the electric light companies or to the Government? MR. SALES: Sir, the electric light companies take their instructions from the Government, and in that respect I think the competent authority is, if I am not mistaken, the Public Works Department. The Urban Council is concerned with lighting and the Urban Council, through the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee, goes through the programme rather carefully, not only because there is a need to light new areas, but because there is a need to increase the lighting in certain areas for security reasons and, in the minds of certain Urban Councillors, also for moral reasons. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 353 MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, with the permission of Mr. BERNACCHI, may I pose a couple of supplementaries arising out of the answer given by Mr. SALES? This question of the direct responsibility for street lighting, as I recall, was discussed many years ago and one of the reasons why many of us in the Council had agreed that the Street Lighting Select Com- mittee would be absorbed within the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee was that at that time the responsibility of the Urban Council was primarily in an advisory capacity. An important reason given at that time as to why the Urban Council should be in an ad- visory capacity was the question of security. Apparently, the police had a vested interest in the whole aspect of street lighting. At that time the question of security was, I will agree, paramount, but surely in the light of progress in the provision of street lighting, it seems that street lighting should now be more a matter of the provision of urban ameni- ties, and I think that this matter does deserve review by Government and also our Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee to see whether or not the time has come for this whole matter of street lighting to be considered more in the light of providing an amenity to the public, and I would suggest that this be considered by the Select Committee. Could I have an assurance that this will be considered, Mr. Chairman, by that Committee. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, you have made your point. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I be permitted to ask Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his second question. He said he had a couple of questions. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-I think we have departed far enough away from the original question about lighting in Chai Wan, and perhaps Mr. CHEONG- LEEN's second question could be directed to Mr. SALES before his Select Committee sits? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Mr. Chairman, would it be fair to say that you have not even given me a chance to pose my second question, which is probably quite relevant. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: -You are quite right, Sir; if it concerns Chai Wan I apologize. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: ---Now, in the case of provision of street lighting in Chai Wan, Mr. Chairman, (Laughter) which section in the Public Works Department has direct responsibility to accept the recommenda- tions in providing street lighting in that district? MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I answer that question? To the best of my knowledge it is the same section as would consider lighting in any other district in Hong Kong. (Laughter).

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Page 189 of 259

352

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

that mean that it will be installed next year, or does it merely mean that it will be installed if we come to that item, the other items ahead of it taking priority?

MR. BERNACCHI:-Thank you very much. You say, "I would like to say that street lighting is not the direct responsibility of this Council". I believe that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee. If this is not the direct responsibility of this Council, how is it that formerly there was a Street Lighting Select Committee and now the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee is consulted about it?

MR. SALES: Sir, I would be pleased to clarify the position. It is true that there was before a Street Lighting Select Committee. At that time there were some thirty-seven or more Select Committees in the Urban Council. When the Urban Council was re-organized, insofar as Select Committees were concerned, as Mr. BERNACCHI might recall because he was a member of the Committee which carried out the re- organization, the number of Select Committees was reduced to fifteen; since it has grown to seventeen. Now, the street lighting aspect of the Urban Council's responsibility so far as advising is concerned was then absorbed by the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee. Formerly to the best of my knowledge and belief, the Street Lighting Select Committee merely acted in an advisory capacity insofar as the street lighting programme was concerned. There has been no surrender of the authority of the Urban Council in that respect. We are still consulted. In point of fact, we are able to initiate lighting programmes by making recommendations to the authorities concerned.

MR. BERNACCHI: ---When you say to the authorities concerned, is

it to the electric light companies or to the Government?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

353

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, with the permission of Mr. BERNACCHI, may I pose a couple of supplementaries arising out of the answer given by Mr. SALES?

This question of the direct responsibility for street lighting, as I recall, was discussed many years ago and one of the reasons why many of us in the Council had agreed that the Street Lighting Select Com- mittee would be absorbed within the Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee was that at that time the responsibility of the Urban Council was primarily in an advisory capacity. An important reason given at that time as to why the Urban Council should be in an ad- visory capacity was the question of security. Apparently, the police had a vested interest in the whole aspect of street lighting. At that time the question of security was, I will agree, paramount, but surely in the light of progress in the provision of street lighting, it seems that street lighting should now be more a matter of the provision of urban ameni- ties, and I think that this matter does deserve review by Government and also our Parks, Recreation and Amenities Select Committee to see whether or not the time has come for this whole matter of street lighting to be considered more in the light of providing an amenity to the public, and I would suggest that this be considered by the Select Committee. Could I have an assurance that this will be considered, Mr. Chairman, by that Committee. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, you have made your point.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I be permitted to ask Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for his second question. He said he had a couple of questions. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:-I think we have departed far enough away from the original question about lighting in Chai Wan, and perhaps Mr. CHEONG- LEEN's second question could be directed to Mr. SALES before his Select Committee sits?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:--Mr. Chairman, would it be fair to say that you have not even given me a chance to pose my second question, which is probably quite relevant. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: -You are quite right, Sir; if it concerns Chai Wan I apologize.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: ---Now, in the case of provision of street lighting in Chai Wan, Mr. Chairman, (Laughter) which section in the Public Works Department has direct responsibility to accept the recommenda- tions in providing street lighting in that district?

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I answer that question? To the best of my knowledge it is the same section as would consider lighting in any other district in Hong Kong. (Laughter).

1967 — Page 189

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