Page 127 of 259
230
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
very important thing to make it clear to the public what action has been taken on any motion as Mr. BERNACCHI has pointed out. The second motion on the agenda to-day I hope will make it clear to the public what action was taken on the motion moved at the last meeting.
MR. LI:-Mr. Chairman, before I came into this Council Chamber, this afternoon, Dr. Woo asked me not to speak for fear that I would go against his motion. (Laughter). However, Mr. Chairman, before you put the motion to the vote, I should like to make it quite clear that this motion is no reflection on you, or on your predecessor or on the Secretary and staff of your Department. What we would like to see is that on any motion passed by this Council, the result will be announced to the public so that the public will know what happens to every motion that is either passed or defeated at these Council meetings. With these few words, Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, I likewise had no intention of speaking, but I feel this cri de coeur is rather like a management of an organization blaming its staff. In effect, we are the management of the Urban Council, and if the image we reflect is not what we would like it to be, then it is our own fault. Follow-up is a function of management. I am quite prepared to back Dr. Woo and Mr. BERNACCHI in the Motion if they think it will serve the purpose for which they have designed it, but I would remind them that it is up to us to follow-up in future.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I did not intend to speak but in the last half an hour or so I decided to speak so that my speech will be very short. I beg to support the motion. In supporting this motion, I have this to say. In my view, the function of the present Urban Council may be twofold. Matters concerning parks, recreation, amenities, hawkers, markets, resettlement, etc. belong to its normal function. There is also this function, that the Council should serve as a bridge between the Government and the public, and to reflect public opinion. This is because in this Council there is an elected representation as Mr. BERNACCHI rightly put to you. I would say that not only the motions of the first kind deserve our attention, but also the case should be more so regarding motions of the second category. If I remember correctly, Mr. Chairman, not counting the recent motion of July this year for which I was criticized, I proposed a motion for the creation of local citizenship in order to inspire a sense of belonging and confidence. In June 1965 it was decided to lay this motion on the table and to forward the speeches to the Government for consideration. A few months later, in October 1965, I proposed a motion concerning the adoption of dual languages, that is English and Chinese, in the Urban Council and other Government departments in order to achieve fundamental fairness among the inhabitants of Hong Kong and for its benefit as a whole. These two motions are examples of the second category, and I hope in future at least equal, if not more, attention should be
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
231
paid to such motions. The second motion which I have just mentioned was carried with a large majority. With these short remarks, Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
MR. BERNACCHI:-On a point of clarification, the motion on local citizenship was indeed raised at the meeting of 1st June, 1965, and it was amended by the proposition that it be laid on the table. This amended motion was proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Mr. MARDEN. The question was put and the amended motion was carried, and although the speeches were obviously in fact forwarded to Government, we have heard no more.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, in supporting the motion I would like to point out that the important point, as far as I am concerned, is that these announcements must be made in public. I believe that there are times when we pass a motion in this Council and the public expect us to act upon it. They come to us and say, now you passed a motion about this, how about it? Well, they do not seem to realize that some of these motions are lying gathering dust on the shelves of the Colonial Secretariat and it is for this reason that I think we must clarify in the minds of the public which motions have actually been put into practice. I support the motion.
CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and gentlemen, I propose to abstain from voting on this motion. Personally, I disagree with it; but I will not cast a vote which could be construed as demonstrating unwillingness on my part as Director of Urban Services to accept the role of a servant of this Council in matters which lie within its jurisdiction.
You should know, however, why I disagree with the motion. Dr. Woo possibly feels that this proposal constitutes a measure designed to keep the Council section of the Urban Services Department, or the Department in general, or perhaps Government in general, up to the mark. However, I have been through the list of 24 motions which were debated since our January meeting in 1966. (I cannot be expected to give answers to-day on matters that arose long before I was appointed Chairman of this Council). Quite a number of these 24 motions, of course, are formal motions, such as making a by-law, the acceptance of the composition of select committees, etc., and I assume that Dr. Woo does not intend that I should report back on this type. As for the others, there is absolutely no evidence of failure on the part of the Department to process the motions correctly.
There is evidence that some that were referred to committees of this Council are in abeyance, but there may have been good reasons for that. I don't think it would be helpful if in future it was incumbent on me to announce publicly why this happens sometimes. Also, there is a time for publicity and there is a time for no publicity.
Page 127 of 259
Page 127 of 259
230
was removed and placed before the first paragraph as it seems to be a page number or a reference number that is not directly related to the content. The rest of the text is formatted into paragraphs using HTML `` tags.
of 259
Page 127 of 259
Page 127 of 259
230
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
very important thing to make it clear to the public what action has been taken on any motion as Mr. BERNACCHI has pointed out. The second motion on the agenda to-day I hope will make it clear to the public what action was taken on the motion moved at the last meeting.
MR. LI:-Mr. Chairman, before I came into this Council Chamber, this afternoon, Dr. Woo asked me not to speak for fear that I would go against his motion. (Laughter). However, Mr. Chairman, before you put the motion to the vote, I should like to make it quite clear that this motion is no reflection on you, or on your predecessor or on the Secretary and staff of your Department. What we would like to see is that on any motion passed by this Council, the result will be annouced to the public so that the public will know what happens to every motion that is either passed or defeated at these Council meetings. With these few words, Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, I likewise had no intention of speaking, but I feel this cri de coeur is rather like a management of an organization blaming its staff. In effect, we are the management of the Urban Council, and if a image we reflect is not what we would like it to be, then it is our own fault. Follow-up is a function of management. I am quite prepared to back Dr. Woo and Mr. BERNACCHI in the Motion if they think it will serve the purpose for which they have designed it, but I would remind them that it is up to us to follow-up in future.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I did not intend to speak but in the last half an hour or so I decided to speak so that my speech will be very short. I beg to support the motion. In supporting this motion, I have this to say. In my view, the function of the present Urban Council may be twofold. Matters concerning parks, recreation, ameni- ties, hawkers, markets, resettlement, etc. belong to its normal function. There is also this function, that the Council should serve as a bridge between the Government and the public, and to reflect public opinion. This is because in this Council there is an elected representation as Mr. BERNACCHI rightly put to you. I would say that not only the motions of the first kind deserve our attention, but also the case should be more so regarding motions of the second category. If I remember correctly, Mr. Chairman, not counting the recent motion of July this year for which I was criticized, I proposed a motion for the creation of local citizenship in order to inspire a sense of belonging and confidence. In June 1965 it was decided to lay this motion on the table and to forward the speeches to the Government for consideration. A few months later, in October 1965, I proposed a motion concerning the adoption of dual languages, that is English and Chinese, in the Urban Council and other Government departments in order to achieve funda- mental fairness among the inhabitants of Hong Kong and for its benefit as a whole. These two motions are examples of the second category, and I hope in future at least equal, if not more, attention should be
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
231
paid to such motions. The second motion which I have just mentioned was carried with a large majority. With these short remarks, Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
MR. BERNACCHI:-On a point of clarification, the motion on local citizenship was indeed raised at the meeting of 1st June, 1965, and it was amended by the proposition that it be laid on the table. This amended motion was proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Mr. MARDEN. The question was put and the amended motion was carried, and although the speeches were obviously in fact forwarded to Govern- ment, we have heard no more.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, in supporting the motion I would like to point out that the important point, as far as I am concerned, is that these announcements must be made in public. I believe that there are times when we pass a motion in this Council and the public expect us to act upon it. They come to us and say, now you passed a motion about this, how about it? Well, they do not seem to realize that some of these motions are lying gathering dust on the shelves of the Colonial Secretariat and it is for this reason that I think we must clarify in the minds of the public which motions have actually been put into practice. I support the motion.
CHAIRMAN: -Ladies and gentlemen, I propose to abstain from voting on this motion. Personally, I disagree with it; but I will not cast a vote which could be construed as demonstrating unwillingness on my part as Director of Urban Services to accept the role of a servant of this Council in matters which lie within its jurisdiction.
You should know, however, why I disagree with the motion. Dr. Woo possibly feels that this proposal constitutes a measure designed to keep the Council section of the Urban Services Department, or the Department in general, or perhaps Government in general, up to the mark. However, I have been through the list of 24 motions which were debated since our January meeting in 1966. (I cannot be ex- pected to give answers to-day on matters that arose long before I was appointed Chairman of this Council). Quite a number of these 24 motions, of course, are formal motions, such as making a by-law, the acceptance of the composition of select committees, etc., and I assume that Dr. Woo does not intend that I should report back on this type. As for the others, there is absolutely no evidence of failure on the part of the Department to process the motions correctly.
There is evidence that some that were referred to committees of this Council are in abeyance, but there may have been good reasons for that. I don't think it would be helpful if in future it was incum- bent on me to announce publicly why this happens sometimes. Also, there is a time for publicity and there is a time for no publicity.
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.