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MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, in supporting the motion by Mr. SALES, I would like to clarify the statement by Mr. BERNACCHI when he said that at the last meeting of this Council a minor row took place. I would like to clarify that by saying it was not a minor row, it was simply part of the cut and thrust of debate, and what takes place during question time at Council meetings. This is what this Council has been quite used to during the past few years. I have noticed, Mr. Chairman, that ever since you rejoined this Council you have made a significant contribution to streamlining the work of the Department. Mr. BERNACCHI himself has said so, even to the point when he wishes to have the Hawker Report called the "Tingle Ten Year Plan". But I think Mr. BERNACCHI has also hinted that it is one thing to streamline the work of the Department, and it is also quite another thing to streamline the deliberations of this Council. The Unofficial Members of this Council are very jealous of their rights and responsibilities to the public as takes place during meetings of this Council, and I would suggest, Sir, that this is a valid point which Chairmen of this Council should bear in mind; that much has happened in the past three years since you were last Chairman of the Council. This Council has evolved into an active Council where questions are raised concerning public matters, and where the Chairman of the Council does act as flexibly as he can.
Now sir, you have quoted precedents from England, and as Dr. BELL said, we should not be guided by England. We should be guided by what Mrs. Irene WHITE said when she was here that this Council is quite unique in the world. I hope you will bear that in mind, Sir. I would say that I do support the motion by Mr. SALES for two valid reasons, one that you rejoined this Council only three months ago, and two we have not given you enough chance to get adjusted to the Unofficial Members of Council. (Laughter). But I submit, Sir, by your performance to-day, you have shown that you are a much better Chairman to-day than you were at the last meeting. Secondly, Sir, you are a good administrator, and I believe that everyone of us grows up—it doesn't matter what our age is. (Laughter). Finally, Mr. Chairman, might I mention, for the benefit of Members present, that you have ruled out three questions raised by Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in and myself, and before the meeting commenced I handed the Secretary of this Council a letter requesting that these three questions which were ruled out of order should be put on the agenda of the next meeting of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee for consideration. I think the Committee would welcome any other questions which have been ruled out of order by you. (Laughter).
Sir, I do support Mr. SALES' motion because I think it is a very reasonable one, and the most appropriate under the circumstances.
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MR. SALES: Sir, on a point of order, may I say before Mr. BERNACCHI exercises his right of reply, that it is also the intention of that Select Committee to consider the need to curb verbosity. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, Mr. SALES was not holding his watch in his hand, so he should not speak about verbosity.
CHAIRMAN: With diffidence, Mr. BERNACCHI, am I right in thinking that I should now call for a vote on Mr. SALES' amending motion?
MR. BERNACCHI: I think, Mr. Chairman, that under some Standing Order or other, I have a general right to reply (Laughter) but I will not take the time of the Council up very long. You, Mr. Chairman, made two points as regards other Councils. One point was as regards the Legislative Council, the other was as regards the Parliament in England, and the House of Commons in particular. As regards the Legislative Council, you inferred that these questions could be asked there. My question is, are they asked there? The other reference was to the speaker of the House of Commons. Of course, Parliament is the law-giver, not the by-law giver, my contention is that this Council cannot be compared with the House of Commons, and I endorse what another speaker has said, when he referred to Mrs. Irene WHITE'S remark, that this Urban Council is unique. I think it is unique in all ways, including the esprit de corps and the sense of keen co-operation among members even where we differ violently in our individual opinions. This in fact was borne out remarkably to-day by your letter to me, Mr. Chairman, and I hope you do not mind me mentioning it, that when I came into this Urban Council chamber, I was given a letter in which you expressed your appreciation for my giving you an advance copy of my speech.
CHAIRMAN: The Motion before the Council is that the subject of debate be referred to the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee. It is proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Dr. BELL.
The question was put.
The motion was carried.
CHAIRMAN: That concludes the items on the formal Agenda. Before we close however, there is one matter which I would like to raise. Mr. WRIGHT, the Director of Public Works, is due to proceed on leave on the 12th July. I am sure members will want me to wish Mr. WRIGHT a very pleasant leave. Mr. ROBSON, who, I am sure, is known to most of you, will act as Director of Public Works during Mr. WRIGHT'S absence. (Applause).
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MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, in supporting the motion by Mr. SALES, I would like to clarify the statement by Mr. BERNACCHI when he said that at the last meeting of this Council a minor row took place. I would like to clarify that by saying it was not a minor row, it was simply part of the cut and thrust of debate, and what takes place during question time at Council meetings. This is what this Council has been quite used to during the past few years. I have noticed, Mr. Chairman, that ever since you rejoined this Council you have made a significant contribution to streamlining the work of the Department. Mr. BERNACCHI himself has said so, even to the point when he wishes to have the Hawker Report called the "Tingle Ten Year Plan". But I think Mr. BERNACCHI has also hinted that it is one thing to streamline the work of the Department, and it is also quite another thing to streamline the deliberations of this Council. The Un- official Members of this Council are very jealous of their rights and responsibilities to the public as takes place during meetings of this Council, and I would suggest, Sir, that this is a valid point which Chairmen of this Council should bear in mind; that much has happened in the past three years since you were last Chairman of the Council. This Council has evolved into an active Council where questions are raised concerning public matters, and where the Chairman of the Council does act as flexibly as he can.
Now sir, you have quoted precedents from England, and as Dr. BELL said, we should not be guided by England. We should be guided by what Mrs. Irene WHITE said when she was here that this Council is quite unique in the world. I hope you will bear that in mind, Sir. I would say that I do support the motion by Mr. SALES for two valid reasons, one that you rejoined this Council only three months ago, and two we have not given you enough chance to get adjusted to the Un- official Members of Council. (Laughter). But I submit, Sir, by your performance to-day, you have shown that you are a much better Chair- (Laughter). And man to-day than you were at the last meeting. secondly, Sir, you are a good administrator, and I believe that everyone of us grows up-it doesn't matter what our age is. (Laughter). Finally, Mr. Chairman, might I mention, for the benefit of Members present, that you have ruled out three questions raised by Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in and myself, and before the meeting commenced I handed the Secretary of this Council a letter requesting that these three questions which were ruled out of order should be put on the agenda of the next meeting of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee for considera- tion. I think the Committee would welcome any other questions which have been ruled out of order by you. (Laughter).
Sir, I do support Mr. SALES' motion because I think it is a very reasonable one, and the most appropriate under the circumstances.
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MR. SALES: Sir, on a point of order, may I say before Mr. BERNACCHI exercises his right of reply, that it is also the intention of that Select Committee to consider the need to curb verbosity. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, Mr. SALES was not holding his watch in his hand, so he should not speak about verbosity.
CHAIRMAN:With diffidence, Mr. BERNACCHI, am I right in think- ing that I should now call for a vote on Mr. SALES' amending motion?
MR. BERNACCHI:-I think, Mr. Chairman, that under some Standing Order or other, I have a general right to reply (Laughter) but I will not take the time of the Council up very long. You, Mr. Chairman, made two points as regards other Councils. One point was as regards the Legislative Council, the other was as regards the Parliament in England, and the House of Commons in particular. As regards the Legislative Council, you inferred that these questions could be asked there. My question is, are they asked there? The other reference was to the speaker of the House of Commons. Of course Parliament is the law-giver, not the by-law giver, my contention is that this Council cannot be compared with the House of Commons, and I endorse what another speaker, has said, when he referred to Mrs. Irene WHITE'S remark, that this Urban Council is unique. I think it is unique in all ways, including the esprit de corps and the sense of keen co-operation among members even where we differ violently in our individual opinions. This in fact was born out remarkably to-day by your letter to me, Mr. Chairman, and I hope you do not mind me mentioning it, that when I came into this Urban Council chamber, I was given a letter in which you expressed your appreciation for my giving you an advance copy of my speech.
CHAIRMAN:-The Motion before the Council is that the subject of debate be referred to the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Com- mittee. It is proposed by Mr. SALES and seconded by Dr. BELL.
The question was put.
The motion was carried.
CHAIRMAN:-That concludes the items on the formal Agenda. Before we close however, there is one matter which I would like to raise. Mr. WRIGHT, the Director of Public Works, is due to proceed on leave on the 12th July. I am sure members will want me to wish Mr. WRIGHT a very pleasant leave. Mr. ROBSON, who, I am sure, is known to most of you, will act as Director of Public Works during Mr. WRIGHT'S absence. (Applause).
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