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sary to refer it for sanction of the Standing Committee under Standing Order 10(1). Again, I ask why? Why is this matter outside the jurisdiction of the Council? Admittedly there are other provisions in other ordinances compelling Public Utilities, etc. to fence, but if they do not, why should we as a Council not ensure that the Public go in safety? Indeed, there is common law tort of negligence and, in urban areas, are not members of this Council liable for negligence, if we do not take action to ensure proper fencing just because it is a matter which some other departments or some bodies are primarily responsible for seeing to?

Then, my learned Friend and Colleague Mr. Henry Hu asked 5 questions of which you ruled out 4. Again, in my submission at least two of the four were within the Jurisdiction of the Urban Council and dealt with questions of whether this Council was concerned with the relief of rain storm and flood victims. In fact, question 2 was asking for information about whether the recent flooding in Ming Yuen Street, North Point, was caused by the overflow of water from Choi Sai Woo Reservoir. Are we, Mr. Chairman, not concerned with the flooding of streets that it is our duty to keep clean and clear, what nonsense! Mr. Chairman, this question could suitably have been answered by the Director of Public Works as he has answered many questions during the last few years and he could have said, and willingly said, what measures are being taken to prevent a recurrence, which was the last part of the question. As for the other two questions of Mr. Henry Hu, I consider that you, Sir, were within your power to rule them out of But it shows the order, because they deal with a medical subject.

need for a total over-haul of local government at an early stage, so that questions of public interest even if they do deal with medical subjects or rather a medical case, can be asked and answered.

I accuse you, Mr. Chairman, by your attitude in these matters and by your use of your discretion vested in you by Standing Orders (but subject to review upon substantive motion) of playing into the hands of the people that say Government is way over the heads of the men in the street. Only on this Council are there elected representatives and it is essential for the proper functioning of this Council and to gain proper information that members of the public are asking about, that you, Sir, should be very slow in ruling out of order matters of this kind. In your letter to Mr. Henry Hu you say that "neither the Council nor I have any say in the causes of the flooding". What a thing to say: Neither this Council nor yourself have anything to say about the causes of flooding and yet we are a Council of Hong Kong and we have statutory duty, inter alia, to keep the streets and drains clear. Of course, the Urban Council and yourself, Mr. Chairman, as Director of the Urban Services Department have a say in the causes of flooding. Government without co-operation is not good government

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and for all its faults the Hong Kong Government is a Government with co-operation among departments and Councils. This Council on your own statement at the meeting on the 3rd May, 1966 in carrying out Governmental functions conferred upon it by the Legislative Council, is an instrument of Constitutional Government. Mr. Chairman, I call upon you also, as Chairman of this Urban Council, to be constitutional and not dictatorial.

MR. HU:Mr. Chairman, I second the motion, and may I reserve my speech for later stage.

CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and Gentlemen, on reading the brief text of Mr. BERNACCHI's motion that this Council has no confidence in my interpretation of Standing Orders I might be excused for thinking that this was a criticism of the laxity which I have shown in enforcing Standing Orders. There can be doubt in the mind of anyone who studies the facts that I have gone out of my way sometimes to be accommodating to a member who wished to make a point on a matter not strictly within the jurisdiction of this Council. We have only to glance at to-day's Agenda, for example, to find evidence of this. At question No. 2 Dr. BELL asked: "What steps are being taken to ensure that there is no further danger of falling rocks and boulders or land- slides in the Urban Council playgrounds and in the rest of the Colony generally, in the event of any further heavy rains falling?" The words "and in the rest of the Colony generally" are out of order, and strictly speaking, I should have asked Dr. BELL to omit them from the question. Members will recall also that at last month's meeting I accepted a question from Mr. CHEONG-LEEN regarding a bus service to Chung Hom Kok park. Perhaps I should not have done so. Bus services are not our concern even if parks are. I could multiply this sort of example, and if Members will consult the Hansard report of our proceedings for April and May this year (June is not yet available) they will see just how many supplementary questions I have permitted which were out of order.

If, indeed, I were being accused of laxity I could only agree and tender my apologies.

However, it is clear from the speech I have heard proposing the motion that I am accused of being too strict in ruling questions out of order. The particular question which gives rise to this motion has been read out by Mr. BERNACCHI. I replied to this as follows:

I regret that I must rule your question concerning the fencing of roads while they are being dug up by the Public Works Department or a Public Utility out of order. I note that you have so framed your question as to relate it to the