1966 — Page 62

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 62 of 279

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. LI:- Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I have to ask the Commissioner for Resettlement.

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:

Mr. Chairman, I could not give that answer off the cuff either, but I shall be happy to provide the information at a later date.

MR. BERNACCHI:- Thank you very much.

Could I ask Mr. BARTY, through you, Sir, whether in fact it is well above any figures that have been quoted in the answer just given by Mr. LI Yiu-bor?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, I think the attendance record of resettlement children is particularly good. I am informed that the Colony-wide estimate of children between the ages of six and eleven not attending schools is about 137,500. As the estates contain about a fifth of the population of the Colony it looks as if a very much higher proportion of resettlement children are attending school than those living outside resettlement estates.

DR. BELL:- Mr. Chairman, could I ask you what effort is being made by the Resettlement Department to get these 18,000 to attend primary school if there are places for them. Does the Department know the reasons why they do not attend?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, I think the answer has already been given in paragraph 2 of Mr. Li Yiu-bor's reply. As to the second part of that supplementary question, I think it is generally agreed that the principal reason for children not attending school is economic. They are either helping to add to the family income, or older children are required to remain at home to look after the babies while the mother and father are out earning.

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a supplementary question, following on that answer? Could you draw the attention of the Social Welfare Department to the crying need for nurseries for children to be looked after so that primary school age children can go to school. And could you also draw the attention of the Education Department to the crying need for free school places for some of these children?

CHAIRMAN:- These questions will appear in the Hansard and I will send them to the appropriate departments.

DR. BELL:- Thank you.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, last year in answer to a question I raised on this particular subject, Mr. BARTY gave three main reasons why children of primary school age in resettlement estates were not going to school. One of these was, as Dr. BELL has just said, due to the shortage of nurseries. Another, which is the subject of my supplementary now, being that some of the families cannot afford to pay to send their children to school; now, in this connection, would it be possible for the Social Welfare Department to make it known to families in resettlement estates that they would be prepared to pay for their school fees if the parents are prepared to allow their children to go to school?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- No, Sir.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, is not that hard-hearted? (Laughter).

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- It may sound hard-hearted, Sir, but cash assistance is not a form of assistance that the Department is authorized to give although there are agencies with which we are in touch which deal specifically with this type of assistance.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- A supplementary in regard to that, Mr. Chairman. Would the Social Welfare Department then be prepared to co-ordinate efforts to provide such assistance, since from the figures which have been given here, Government has more vacant school places than required for children who should be in school and who are not at school?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- Sir, it is not also possible that one implication of the existence of vacancies is that there are also vacant free places.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- I thought the Director of Social Welfare just said there are agencies which would be prepared to pay the school fees of families who are in need?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- There are, Sir, indeed such agencies, and when cases come to our notice where this form of assistance is appropriate, reference is made to these agencies.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Do they come, Sir?

CHAIRMAN:- Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, would you agree with me that this has now been sufficiently ventilated? (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, this time I do, and I would be prepared to say this much, even though you have committed a breach of Standing Orders yourself in that you allowed a supplementary question by Mr. Jerry FORSGATE to be answered by yourself. It was out of order since it had to do with Kowloon and not Mount Davis. I am prepared to say that I agree with the old dictum, that to err is human and to forgive is divine. You erred, Sir, but I do forgive you. (Laughter).

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Page 62 of 279 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. LI:- Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I have to ask the Commissioner for Resettlement. COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: Mr. Chairman, I could not give that answer off the cuff either, but I shall be happy to provide the information at a later date. MR. BERNACCHI:- Thank you very much. Could I ask Mr. BARTY, through you, Sir, whether in fact it is well above any figures that have been quoted in the answer just given by Mr. LI Yiu-bor? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, I think the attendance record of resettlement children is particularly good. I am informed that the Colony-wide estimate of children between the ages of six and eleven not attending schools is about 137,500. As the estates contain about a fifth of the population of the Colony it looks as if a very much higher proportion of resettlement children are attending school than those living outside resettlement estates. DR. BELL:- Mr. Chairman, could I ask you what effort is being made by the Resettlement Department to get these 18,000 to attend primary school if there are places for them. Does the Department know the reasons why they do not attend? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Mr. Chairman, I think the answer has already been given in paragraph 2 of Mr. Li Yiu-bor's reply. As to the second part of that supplementary question, I think it is generally agreed that the principal reason for children not attending school is economic. They are either helping to add to the family income, or older children are required to remain at home to look after the babies while the mother and father are out earning. DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a supplementary question, following on that answer? Could you draw the attention of the Social Welfare Department to the crying need for nurseries for children to be looked after so that primary school age children can go to school. And could you also draw the attention of the Education Department to the crying need for free school places for some of these children? CHAIRMAN:- These questions will appear in the Hansard and I will send them to the appropriate departments. DR. BELL:- Thank you. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, last year in answer to a question I raised on this particular subject, Mr. BARTY gave three main reasons why children of primary school age in resettlement estates were not going to school. One of these was, as Dr. BELL has just said, due to the shortage of nurseries. Another, which is the subject of my supplementary now, being that some of the families cannot afford to pay to send their children to school; now, in this connection, would it be possible for the Social Welfare Department to make it known to families in resettlement estates that they would be prepared to pay for their school fees if the parents are prepared to allow their children to go to school? DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- No, Sir. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, is not that hard-hearted? (Laughter). DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- It may sound hard-hearted, Sir, but cash assistance is not a form of assistance that the Department is authorized to give although there are agencies with which we are in touch which deal specifically with this type of assistance. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- A supplementary in regard to that, Mr. Chairman. Would the Social Welfare Department then be prepared to co-ordinate efforts to provide such assistance, since from the figures which have been given here, Government has more vacant school places than required for children who should be in school and who are not at school? DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- Sir, it is not also possible that one implication of the existence of vacancies is that there are also vacant free places. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- I thought the Director of Social Welfare just said there are agencies which would be prepared to pay the school fees of families who are in need? DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- There are, Sir, indeed such agencies, and when cases come to our notice where this form of assistance is appropriate, reference is made to these agencies. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Do they come, Sir? CHAIRMAN:- Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, would you agree with me that this has now been sufficiently ventilated? (Laughter). MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, this time I do, and I would be prepared to say this much, even though you have committed a breach of Standing Orders yourself in that you allowed a supplementary question by Mr. Jerry FORSGATE to be answered by yourself. It was out of order since it had to do with Kowloon and not Mount Davis. I am prepared to say that I agree with the old dictum, that to err is human and to forgive is divine. You erred, Sir, but I do forgive you. (Laughter). Page 62 of 279 102 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 103

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279 Page 62 of 279 Page 62 of 279 102 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. LI:-Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I have to ask the Commis- sioner for Resettlement. COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: Mr. Chairman, I could not give that answer off the cuff either, but I shall be happy to provide the information at a later date. MR. BERNACCHI:-Thank you very much. Could I ask Mr. BARTY, through you, Sir, whether in fact it is well above any figures that have been quoted in the answer just given by Mr. LI Yiu-bor? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -Mr. Chairman, I think the attendance record of resettlement children is particularly good. I am informed that the Colony-wide estimate of children between the ages of six and eleven not attending schools is about 137,500. As the estates contain about a fifth of the population of the Colony it looks as if a very much higher proportion of resettlement children are attending school than those living outside resettlement estates. DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, could I ask you what effort is being made by the Resettlement Department to get these 18,000 to attend primary school if there are places for them. Does the Department know the reasons why they do not attend? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -Mr. Chairman, I think the answer has already been given in paragraph 2 of Mr. Li Yiu-bor's reply. As to the second part of that supplementary question, I think it is generally agreed that the principle reason for children not attending school is economic. They are either helping to add to the family in- come, or older children are required to remain at home to look after the babies while the mother and father are out earning. DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a supplementary ques- tion, following on that answer? Could you draw the attention of the Social Welfare Department to the crying need for nurseries for children to be looked after so that primary school age children can go to school. And could you also draw the attention of the Education Department to the crying need for free school places for some of these children? CHAIRMAN:-These questions will appear in the Hansard and I will send them to the appropriate departments. DR. BELL:-Thank you. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, last year in answer to a ques- tion I raised on this particular subject, Mr. BARTY gave three main reasons why children of primary school age in resettlement estates were not going to school. One of these was, as Dr. BELL has just said, due HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 103 to the shortage of nurseries. Another, which is the subject of my supplementary now, being that some of the families can not afford to pay to send their children to school; now, in this connection, would it be possible for the Social Welfare Department to make it known to families in resettlement estates that they would be prepared to pay for their school fees if the parents are prepared to allow their children to go to school? DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:No, Sir. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, is not that hard-hearted? (Laughter). DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-It may sound hard-hearted, Sir, but cash assistance is not a form of assistance that the Department is authorized to give although there are agencies with which we are in touch which deal specifically with this type of assistance. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-A supplementary in regard to that, Mr. Chairman. Would the Social Welfare Department then be prepared to co-ordinate efforts to provide such assistance, since from the figures which have been given here, Government has more vacant school places than required for children who should be in school and who are not at school? DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-Sir, it is not also possible that one implication of the existence of vacancies is that there are also vacant free places. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I thought the Director of Social Welfare just said there are agencies which would be prepared to pay the school fees of families who are in need? DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-There are, Sir, indeed such agencies, and when cases come to our notice where this form of assistance is appropriate, reference is made to these agencies. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Do they come, Sir? CHAIRMAN:-Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, would you agree with me that this has now been sufficiently ventilated? (Laughter). MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, this time I do, and I would be prepared to say this much, even though you have committed a breach of Standing Orders yourself in that you allowed a supplementary question by Mr. Jerry FORSGATE to be answered by yourself. It was out of order since it had to do with Kowloon and not Mount Davis. I am prepared to say that I agree with the old dictum, that to err is human and to forgive is divine. You erred, Sir, but I do forgive you. (Laughter).

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Page 62 of 279

102

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. LI:-Mr. Chairman, I am afraid I have to ask the Commis- sioner for Resettlement.

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:

Mr. Chairman, I could not give that answer off the cuff either, but I shall be happy to provide the information at a later date.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Thank you very much.

Could I ask Mr. BARTY, through you, Sir, whether in fact it is well above any figures that have been quoted in the answer just given by Mr. LI Yiu-bor?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -Mr. Chairman, I think the attendance record of resettlement children is particularly good. I am informed that the Colony-wide estimate of children between the ages of six and eleven not attending schools is about 137,500. As the estates contain about a fifth of the population of the Colony it looks as if a very much higher proportion of resettlement children are attending school than those living outside resettlement estates.

DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, could I ask you what effort is being made by the Resettlement Department to get these 18,000 to attend primary school if there are places for them. Does the Department know the reasons why they do not attend?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -Mr. Chairman, I think the answer has already been given in paragraph 2 of Mr. Li Yiu-bor's reply. As to the second part of that supplementary question, I think it is generally agreed that the principle reason for children not attending school is economic. They are either helping to add to the family in- come, or older children are required to remain at home to look after the babies while the mother and father are out earning.

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, may I ask you a supplementary ques- tion, following on that answer? Could you draw the attention of the Social Welfare Department to the crying need for nurseries for children to be looked after so that primary school age children can go to school. And could you also draw the attention of the Education Department to the crying need for free school places for some of these children?

CHAIRMAN:-These questions will appear in the Hansard and I will send them to the appropriate departments.

DR. BELL:-Thank you.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, last year in answer to a ques- tion I raised on this particular subject, Mr. BARTY gave three main reasons why children of primary school age in resettlement estates were not going to school. One of these was, as Dr. BELL has just said, due

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

103

to the shortage of nurseries. Another, which is the subject of my supplementary now, being that some of the families can not afford to pay to send their children to school; now, in this connection, would it be possible for the Social Welfare Department to make it known to families in resettlement estates that they would be prepared to pay for their school fees if the parents are prepared to allow their children to go to school?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:No, Sir.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, is not that hard-hearted? (Laughter).

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-It may sound hard-hearted, Sir, but cash assistance is not a form of assistance that the Department is authorized to give although there are agencies with which we are in touch which deal specifically with this type of assistance.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-A supplementary in regard to that, Mr. Chairman. Would the Social Welfare Department then be prepared to co-ordinate efforts to provide such assistance, since from the figures which have been given here, Government has more vacant school places than required for children who should be in school and who are not at school?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-Sir, it is not also possible that one implication of the existence of vacancies is that there are also vacant free places.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I thought the Director of Social Welfare just said there are agencies which would be prepared to pay the school fees of families who are in need?

DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-There are, Sir, indeed such agencies, and when cases come to our notice where this form of assistance is appropriate, reference is made to these agencies.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Do they come, Sir?

CHAIRMAN:-Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, would you agree with me that this has now been sufficiently ventilated? (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, this time I do, and I would be prepared to say this much, even though you have committed a breach of Standing Orders yourself in that you allowed a supplementary question by Mr. Jerry FORSGATE to be answered by yourself. It was out of order since it had to do with Kowloon and not Mount Davis. I am prepared to say that I agree with the old dictum, that to err is human and to forgive is divine. You erred, Sir, but I do forgive you. (Laughter).

1966 — Page 62

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