1966 — Page 33

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 33 of 279

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

you notice beforehand, I should have done, but it seems to me that in (ii) the words "except that" down to "until that date" should be removed, because they are superfluous. A member of the Urban Council can cease to hold office for various reasons. One, his term expires and he either does not stand for re-election or he is not elected. Two, he can cease to be a member for failing to attend meetings several months in a row, and three, fortunately I might say, touch wood, we have not had this experience yet, he could cease to be a member because of death. So to make this exception is unnecessary. If he in fact, if any of us in fact, ceases to be a member of this Council, of course he ceases to be a Chairman of the Select Committee of this Council. But if, for instance, Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN stands for, and is re-elected, then he continues to be the Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee until the first meeting in April. Other- wise it would mean that if an urgent matter comes before the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee there would be no Chairman, because this resolution says, willy nilly, he ceases to be a Chairman on the 31st March, so, it is unnecessary and might cause confusion.

The other amendment that I have to propose concerns Select Committee No. 13, always again touch wood—a lucky number for me, the Resettlement Policy Select Committee. I think that confusion in the powers of the Resettlement Policy is apparent when the Resettle- ment Policy and the Resettlement Management both commence with the words "To exercise the powers and functions of this Council as Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordin- ance", and I propose to re-arrange the policy and powers "To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including, where necessary, the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, 1958.”

I beg so to move.

DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.

CHAIRMAN:--Does any member wish to speak on these two amendments?

MR. SALES-Sir, I would like to point out to Mr. BERNACCHI, through you, in respect of the second amendment which he has intro- duced, that the Resettlement Policy Committee must necessarily exercise the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V, and not "where necessary". Because the Resettlement Policy Committee forms the appeals body and, as such, it is exercising those very powers which, by delegation, will be exercised by the Management Committee in practice when related to actual resettlement estates. I would like to move an amendment to the amendment by the deletion of the words "where necessary" because they must be exercised by necessity.

MR. MARDEN: — I would like to second the amendment to the amendment. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:-Will members please vote on the amendment to the amendment first. (to Mr. BERNACCHI). Sir, do you have your amend- ment written out? I find it rather difficult to interpret this.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, but I'm afraid not in a form that anybody but myself can understand. (Laughter). It is really reversing the powers.

CHAIRMAN:-Would you please dictate it to me.

MR. BERNACCHI:-You, Sir, have copy of page 4. It starts with "To determine the overall policy”—

CHAIRMAN:---This is against Committee No. 13?

MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, and thereon to include "overall resettle- ment policies and the planning of future operations" just as it is at the end-including "the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958."

CHAIRMAN:-Thank you.

MR. BERNACCHI:-The other amendment is just cutting out the words in paragraph (ii) of the Resolution "except that" to the end of the paragraph.

CHAIRMAN:-I accept that.

MR. SALES: That is acceptable to our side of the table.

CHAIRMAN:-Stops at April, 1967?

MR. SALES: -Yes.

CHAIRMAN: ---In any event a Chairman could be appointed.

MR. SALES: Did you say, Sir, the Chairman could be an Appointed Member at any time? (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and Gentlemen, the second column opposite the 13th Select Committee, entitled "Resettlement Policy," is under Mr. BERNACCHI's motion to read as follows:

"To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority, under parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958."

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Page 33 of 279 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL you notice beforehand, I should have done, but it seems to me that in (ii) the words "except that" down to "until that date" should be removed, because they are superfluous. A member of the Urban Council can cease to hold office for various reasons. One, his term expires and he either does not stand for re-election or he is not elected. Two, he can cease to be a member for failing to attend meetings several months in a row, and three, fortunately I might say, touch wood, we have not had this experience yet, he could cease to be a member because of death. So to make this exception is unnecessary. If he in fact, if any of us in fact, ceases to be a member of this Council, of course he ceases to be a Chairman of the Select Committee of this Council. But if, for instance, Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN stands for, and is re-elected, then he continues to be the Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee until the first meeting in April. Other- wise it would mean that if an urgent matter comes before the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee there would be no Chairman, because this resolution says, willy nilly, he ceases to be a Chairman on the 31st March, so, it is unnecessary and might cause confusion. The other amendment that I have to propose concerns Select Committee No. 13, always again touch wood—a lucky number for me, the Resettlement Policy Select Committee. I think that confusion in the powers of the Resettlement Policy is apparent when the Resettle- ment Policy and the Resettlement Management both commence with the words "To exercise the powers and functions of this Council as Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordin- ance", and I propose to re-arrange the policy and powers "To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including, where necessary, the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, 1958.” I beg so to move. DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, I second the motion. CHAIRMAN:--Does any member wish to speak on these two amendments? MR. SALES-Sir, I would like to point out to Mr. BERNACCHI, through you, in respect of the second amendment which he has intro- duced, that the Resettlement Policy Committee must necessarily exercise the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V, and not "where necessary". Because the Resettlement Policy Committee forms the appeals body and, as such, it is exercising those very powers which, by delegation, will be exercised by the Management Committee in practice when related to actual resettlement estates. I would like to move an amendment to the amendment by the deletion of the words "where necessary" because they must be exercised by necessity. MR. MARDEN: I would like to second the amendment to the amendment. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-Will members please vote on the amendment to the amendment first. (to Mr. BERNACCHI). Sir, do you have your amend- ment written out? I find it rather difficult to interpret this. MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, but I'm afraid not in a form that anybody but myself can understand. (Laughter). It is really reversing the powers. CHAIRMAN:-Would you please dictate it to me. MR. BERNACCHI:-You, Sir, have copy of page 4. It starts with "To determine the overall policy”— CHAIRMAN:---This is against Committee No. 13? MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, and thereon to include "overall resettle- ment policies and the planning of future operations" just as it is at the end-including "the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958." CHAIRMAN:-Thank you. MR. BERNACCHI:-The other amendment is just cutting out the words in paragraph (ii) of the Resolution "except that" to the end of the paragraph. CHAIRMAN:-I accept that. MR. SALES: That is acceptable to our side of the table. CHAIRMAN:-Stops at April, 1967? MR. SALES: -Yes. CHAIRMAN: ---In any event a Chairman could be appointed. MR. SALES: Did you say, Sir, the Chairman could be an Appointed Member at any time? (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and Gentlemen, the second column opposite the 13th Select Committee, entitled "Resettlement Policy," is under Mr. BERNACCHI's motion to read as follows: "To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority, under parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958." Page 33 of 279
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1279 Page 33 of 279 1 44 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL you notice beforehand, I should have done, but it seems to me that in (ii) the words "except that" down to "until that date" should be removed, because they are superfluous. A member of the Urban Council can cease to hold office for various reasons. One, his term expires and he either does not stand for re-election or he is not elected. Two, he can cease to be a member for failing to attend meetings several months in a row, and three, fortunately I might say, touch wood, we have not had this experience yet, he could cease to be a member because of death. So to make this exception is unnecessary. If he in fact, if any of us in fact, ceases to be a member of this Council, of course he ceases to be a Chairman of the Select Committee of this Council. But if, for instance, Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN stands for, and is re-elected, then he continues to be the Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee until the first meeting in April. Other- wise it would mean that if an urgent matter comes before the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee there would be no Chairman, because this resolution says, willy nilly, he ceases to be a Chairman on the 31st March, so, it is unnecessary and might cause confusion. The other amendment that I have to propose concerns Select Committee No. 13, always again touch wood—a lucky number for me, the Resettlement Policy Select Committee. I think that confusion in the powers of the Resettlement Policy is apparent when the Resettle- ment Policy and the Resettlement Management both commence with the words "To exercise the powers and functions of this Council as Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordin- ance", and I propose to re-arrange the policy and powers "To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including, where necessary, the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, 1958.” I beg so to move. DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, I second the motion. CHAIRMAN:--Does any member wish to speak on these two amendments? MR. SALES-Sir, I would like to point out to Mr. BERNACCHI, through you, in respect of the second amendment which he has intro- duced, that the Resettlement Policy Committee must necessarily exercise the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V, and not "where necessary". Because the Resettlement Policy Committee forms the appeals body and, as such, it is exercising those very powers which, by delegation, will be exercised by the Management Committee in practice when related to actual resettlement estates. I would like to move an amendment to the HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 45 amendment by the deletion of the words "where necessary" because they must be exercised by necessity. MR. MARDEN: I would like to second the amendment to the amendment. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-Will members please vote on the amendment to the amendment first. (to Mr. BERNACCHI). Sir, do you have your amend- ment written out? I find it rather difficult to interpret this. MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, but I'm afraid not in a form that anybody but myself can understand. (Laughter). It is really reversing the powers. CHAIRMAN:-Would you please dictate it to me. MR. BERNACCHI:-You, Sir, have copy of page 4. It starts with "To determine the overall policy”— CHAIRMAN:---This is against Committee No. 13? MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, and thereon to include "overall resettle- ment policies and the planning of future operations" just as it is at the end-including "the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958." CHAIRMAN:-Thank you. MR. BERNACCHI: -The other amendment is just cutting out the words in paragraph (ii) of the Resolution "except that" to the end of the paragraph. CHAIRMAN:-I accept that. MR. SALES: That is acceptable to our side of the table. CHAIRMAN:-Stops at April, 1967? MR. SALES: -Yes. CHAIRMAN: ---In any event a Chairman could be appointed. MR. SALES: Did you say, Sir, the Chairman could be an Appointed Member at any time? (Laughter). CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and Gentlemen, the second column opposite the 13th Select Committee, entitled "Resettlement Policy," is under Mr. BERNACCHI's motion to read as follows: "To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority, under parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958."
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44

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

you notice beforehand, I should have done, but it seems to me that in (ii) the words "except that" down to "until that date" should be removed, because they are superfluous. A member of the Urban Council can cease to hold office for various reasons. One, his term expires and he either does not stand for re-election or he is not elected. Two, he can cease to be a member for failing to attend meetings several months in a row, and three, fortunately I might say, touch wood, we have not had this experience yet, he could cease to be a member because of death. So to make this exception is unnecessary. If he in fact, if any of us in fact, ceases to be a member of this Council, of course he ceases to be a Chairman of the Select Committee of this Council. But if, for instance, Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN stands for, and is re-elected, then he continues to be the Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee until the first meeting in April. Other- wise it would mean that if an urgent matter comes before the Standing Orders and Procedures Select Committee there would be no Chairman, because this resolution says, willy nilly, he ceases to be a Chairman on the 31st March, so, it is unnecessary and might cause confusion.

The other amendment that I have to propose concerns Select Committee No. 13, always again touch wood—a lucky number for me, the Resettlement Policy Select Committee. I think that confusion in the powers of the Resettlement Policy is apparent when the Resettle- ment Policy and the Resettlement Management both commence with the words "To exercise the powers and functions of this Council as Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordin- ance", and I propose to re-arrange the policy and powers "To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including, where necessary, the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance, 1958.”

I beg so to move.

DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.

CHAIRMAN:--Does any member wish to speak on these two

amendments?

MR. SALES-Sir, I would like to point out to Mr. BERNACCHI, through you, in respect of the second amendment which he has intro- duced, that the Resettlement Policy Committee must necessarily exercise the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V, and not "where necessary". Because the Resettlement Policy Committee forms the appeals body and, as such, it is exercising those very powers which, by delegation, will be exercised by the Management Committee in practice when related to actual resettlement estates. I would like to move an amendment to the

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

45

amendment by the deletion of the words "where necessary" because they must be exercised by necessity.

MR. MARDEN: — I would like to second the amendment to the amendment. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:-Will members please vote on the amendment to the amendment first. (to Mr. BERNACCHI). Sir, do you have your amend- ment written out? I find it rather difficult to interpret this.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, but I'm afraid not in a form that anybody but myself can understand. (Laughter). It is really reversing the powers.

CHAIRMAN:-Would you please dictate it to me.

MR. BERNACCHI:-You, Sir, have copy of page 4. It starts with "To determine the overall policy”—

CHAIRMAN:---This is against Committee No. 13?

MR. BERNACCHI:-Yes, and thereon to include "overall resettle- ment policies and the planning of future operations" just as it is at the end-including "the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as a Competent Authority under Parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958."

CHAIRMAN:-Thank you.

MR. BERNACCHI:

-The other amendment is just cutting out the words in paragraph (ii) of the Resolution "except that" to the end of the paragraph.

CHAIRMAN:-I accept that.

MR. SALES: That is acceptable to our side of the table. CHAIRMAN:-Stops at April, 1967?

MR. SALES: -Yes.

CHAIRMAN: ---In any event a Chairman could be appointed. MR. SALES: Did you say, Sir, the Chairman could be an Appointed Member at any time? (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and Gentlemen, the second column opposite the 13th Select Committee, entitled "Resettlement Policy," is under Mr. BERNACCHI's motion to read as follows:

"To determine overall resettlement policies and the planning of future operations, including the exercise of the powers and functions of the Council as the Competent Authority, under parts IV and V of the Resettlement Ordinance 1958."

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