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tion of the Fire Services and Police Departments, but would also undermine the business of small shopkeepers and market stallholders, whom it should be Government's policy to encourage.
I note with appreciation the remarks which Mr. BERNACCHI made about the Hawker Control Force, and I agree with him that its conditions of service need to be improved before the Force can be expanded.
Mr. BERNACCHI has suggested that action against licensed hawkers should take the form of a legal summons rather than arrest. In reply, I would say that it is the present policy of the department to proceed by way of summons in the case of fixed pitch stallholders and pedlar hawkers, where these are known to trade regularly in the same spot. There are, however, a large number of hawkers whose movements are irregular and to whom this policy cannot apply. It has also been found that in a comparatively large number of cases it has not been possible to serve summonses on pedlar hawkers, either because they have given a wrong address in the first place or because they have changed their address without notifying the department. In addition, there are many cases involving pedlar hawkers where a hawker may be causing a serious obstruction by trading in a prohibited place, and where in spite of warnings he has refused to move.
In such cases, the department has no alternative but to make an arrest, but I stress that this is only done after a warning has been given. I feel that it would be dangerous and, in fact, impracticable to lay down any hard and fast rule that the members of the Hawker Control Force must only take action against licensed hawkers by way of summons.
Three Members, Mr. Daniel LAM, Mr. Kenneth Lo and Mr. Henry Hu spoke of the need for technical training which would enable young people to obtain satisfactory jobs in industry rather than turn to hawking for a living. I sympathize with this view, but I am doubtful whether it would be desirable to set up such technical training solely or even principally for the benefit of hawkers. This might have the effect of encouraging people to take to hawking rather than the reverse. At any rate, it will be necessary for us to wait for the recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Industrial Training before we can take this matter any further. I must stress that even now many hawkers could find jobs in factories and elsewhere, but prefer not to do so, since they can earn a better living by hawking and in conditions of greater freedom. If, however, there is a genuine shortage of labour in our industries I would expect the law of supply and demand to bring about a change in this situation.
Some Members have suggested that the hawking situation would be improved by the provision of more off-street hawker bazaars. I agree entirely with this and, wherever space is available, I hope that such bazaars will be constructed. In the older parts of the urban areas where these bazaars are most needed, sites are unfortunately very hard to find, and the provision of bazaars may have to wait until the process of urban renewal has been taken a great deal further.
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where these bazaars are most needed, sites are unfortunately very hard to find, and the provision of bazaars may have to wait until the process of urban renewal has been taken a great deal further.
Mrs. Ellen Li has pointed to the need to expand the authority of the Hawker Control Force to cover unlicensed hawkers as well as licensed ones. I should make it clear that in the areas in which the Force operates, it does cover both licensed and unlicensed hawkers. I agree, however, that the present policy under which some areas are under the direct control of the Hawker Control Force while others come under the Police Force is not entirely satisfactory. I hope that in due course it will be possible to build up the Hawker Control Force to a point where it can take over responsibility for all areas in which hawkers are permitted to do business, but this will, I am afraid, not be for some years to come. This does not mean that unlicensed hawkers who operate outside Hawker Control Force areas have things all their own way. This is far from being the case, and each month the Police take action against a large number of people for various hawking offences. During the month of October 1966, as an example, the total number of Police prosecutions was 9,257 of which 6,680 were for hawking without a licence.
Markets were mentioned by three Members of Council. I must admit that the progress of the Market Building Programme has been disappointingly slow. We need perhaps at this juncture to carry out a reassessment of the underlying principles on which the Market Building Programme is based. I feel that a fresh statement of the Council's views would be of great value to Government departments concerned with the Market Building Programme, and might help to give it fresh impetus. The Urban Services department would, of course, co-operate to the full in any review which might be undertaken.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have exceeded my time and yet there is much left unsaid. I gave warning at the beginning of my speech that I would have to be brief and selective. I cannot conclude, however, without paying a tribute to the unfailing personal friendship with which I am treated by Members, and thanking you for the kind remarks you have made concerning the Urban Services department staff. I am very happy to be working in co-operation with you.
With these words I have pleasure in supporting the motion. (Applause).
CHAIRMAN: ---May I ask Mr. SALES if he proposes to exercise his right to reply. Would he like to recess before?
MR. SALES: No, thank you. Mr. Chairman, last year the Unofficial Member who had the honour of proposing the motion accused Government Members of being masters of evasion. This year, I make
Page 234 of 279
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f279
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
tion of the Fire Services and Police Departments, but would also under- mine the business of small shopkeepers and market stallholders, whom it should be Government's policy to encourage.
I note with appreciation the remarks which Mr. BERNACCHI made about the Hawker Control Force, and I agree with him that its condi- tions of service need to be improved before the Force can be expanded.
Mr. BERNACCHI has suggested that action against licensed hawkers should take the form of a legal summons rather than arrest. In reply, I would say that it is the present policy of the department to proceed by way of summons in the case of fixed pitch stallholders and pedlar hawkers, where these are known to trade regularly in the same spot. There are, however, a large number of hawkers whose movements are irregular and to whom this policy cannot apply. It has also been found that in a comparatively large number of cases it has not been possible to serve summonses on pedlar hawkers, either because they have given a wrong address in the first place or because they have changed their address without notifying the department. In addition, there are many cases involving pedlar hawkers where a hawker may be causing a serious obstruction by trading in a prohibited place, and where in spite of warnings he has refused to move.
In such cases,
the department has no alternative but to make an arrest, but I stress that this is only done after a warning has been given. I feel that it would be dangerous and, in fact, impracticable to lay down any hard and fast rule that the members of the Hawker Control Force must only take action against licensed hawkers by way of summons.
Three Members, Mr. Daniel LAM, Mr. Kenneth Lo and Mr. Henry Hu spoke of the need for technical training which would enable young people to obtain satisfactory jobs in industry rather than turn to hawk- ing for a living. I sympathize with this view, but I am doubtful whether it would be desirable to set up such technical training solely or even principally for the benefit of hawkers. This might have the effect of encouraging people to take to hawking rather than the reverse. At any rate, it will be necessary for us to wait for the recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Industrial Training before we can take this matter any further. I must stress that even now many hawkers could find jobs in factories and elsewhere, but prefer not to do so, since they can earn a better living by hawking and in conditions of greater freedom. If, however, there is a genuine shortage of labour in our industries I would expect the law of supply and demand to bring about a change in this situation.
Some Members have suggested that the hawking situation would be improved by the provision of more off-street hawker bazaars. I agree entirely with this and, wherever space is available, I hope that such bazaars will be constructed. In the older parts of the urban areas
i
1
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
439
where these bazaars are most needed, sites are unfortunately very hard to find, and the provision of bazaars may have to wait until the process of urban renewal has been taken a great deal further.
Mrs. Ellen Li has pointed to the need to expand the authority of the Hawker Control Force to cover unlicensed hawkers as well as licensed ones. I should make it clear that in the areas in which the Force operates, it does cover both licensed and unlicensed hawkers. I agree, however, that the present policy under which some areas are under the direct control of the Hawker Control Force while others come under the Police Force is not entirely satisfactory. I hope that in due course it will be possible to build up the Hawker Control Force to a point where it can take over responsibility for all areas in which hawkers are permitted to do business, but this will, I am afraid, not be for some years to come. This does not mean that unlicensed hawkers who operate outside Hawker Control Force areas have things all their own way. This is far from being the case, and each month the Police take action against a large number of people for various hawking offences. During the month of October 1966, as an example, the total number of Police prosecutions was 9,257 of which 6,680 were for hawking without a licence.
Markets were mentioned by three Members of Council. I must admit that the progress of the Market Building Programme has been disappointingly slow. We need perhaps at this juncture to carry out a reassessment of the underlying principles on which the Market Building Programme is based. I feel that a fresh statement of the Council's views would be of great value to Government departments concerned with the Market Building Programme, and might help to give it fresh impetus. The Urban Services department would, of course, co-operate to the full in any review which might be undertaken.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I have exceeded my time and yet there is much left unsaid. I gave warning at the beginning of my speech that I would have to be brief and selective. I cannot conclude, however, without paying a tribute to the unfailing personal friendship with which I am treated by Members, and thanking you for the kind remarks you have made concerning the Urban Services department staff. I am very happy to be working in co-operation with you.
With these words I have pleasure in supporting the motion. (Applause).
CHAIRMAN: ---May I ask Mr. SALES if he proposes to exercise his right to reply. Would he like to recess before?
MR. SALES: No, thank you. Mr. Chairman, last year the Un- official Member who had the honour of proposing the motion accused Government Members of being masters of evasion. This year, I make
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