£279
Page 219 of 279
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
refuse collection service which has had some effect. The incidence of litter is not nearly so serious in the Mark III and IV estates where refuse chutes are available and where the grilles on the private balconies which most tenants install inhibit the practice of throwing rubbish over the side. The problems of sanitation and litter to which hawkers give rise in estates will, I am sure, be easier to tackle when the plan to which Mr. BERNACCHI referred is put into effect. I hope that, whatever their personal views, all members will give this plan full and public backing as a decision of this Council.
I agree with several members in this debate that the ultimate solution to the problem of litter, to relieving overcrowding, and to raising the standard of housing in the older estates, is to convert the present bare rooms into small self-contained flats with, if possible, their own washing, cooking and toilet facilities. But as Mr. Kenneth Lo rightly pointed out, it would be necessary to rehouse the occupants of the buildings undergoing conversion, at the expense of many thousands who might otherwise be resettled from the even more deplorable conditions to which I earlier referred. Once again we are up against a question of priorities, and I am firmly of the view that conversion of the old estates must wait a little longer until we have made a bigger impression upon the housing problem as a whole, and at least until we have alternative accommodation nearer at hand to which we can move those who have to be replaced.
In one aspect of conditions in the old estates, I do see a prospect of some improvement before very long, that is in reducing the serious degree of overcrowding which has developed since they were built ten or twelve years ago. Members know as well as I do the difficulty of persuading residents to move to a new estate. When an estate is completed and already full, it is only rarely that a room falls vacant which we can use to relieve the overcrowded conditions in which other residents are living. For most of them, the only hope of obtaining a larger room is to move to another estate, but this they will not do because it means severance from the father's place of work or the children's schooling. I am satisfied that, in general, it is these reasons rather than the higher rents prevailing in the new estates which deter people from transferring to a new location. My hopes for an improvement in this situation are pinned on the new estate close to Shek Kip Mei for which site formation is now in progress, since this should be near enough not only to Shek Kip Mei but also to Tai Hang Tung and Li Cheng Uk to encourage a sizeable movement of population out of them. I believe that a number of our tenants also have this solution of their present troubles in mind.
Over the last year or more members have from time to time put forward suggestions which would have the effect of changing or adding to the priority categories for resettlement laid down in paragraph 15 of the White Paper. They did so at our annual debate a year ago, and
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
411
again this year, although the proposals aired on these two occasions do not entirely coincide. The Resettlement Policy and Management Select Committees considered this matter at a joint meeting in March 1966 when they agreed that piecemeal changes in the priorities should be avoided, and that a review of them should be deferred until Government's decisions on the recommendations made by the Working Party on Slum Clearance were available, since these could affect both the composition and the quantity of existing resettlement commitments. It was not, as Dr. BELL suggested, that we are awaiting the further report of some other committee set up to study the Slum Clearance report, and indeed I am not aware of the existence of any such committee. Government has received and analysed the comments of the various Government departments and of most other bodies, including this Council, whose advice was sought on the report, and I understand that, before seeking decisions from Executive Council and the Finance Committee of Legislative Council, it is necessary to work out the implications of the report which, in the field of legislation alone, are bound to be considerable.
Meanwhile, the Housing Board, which is required to advise the Governor on the extension or modification of the Resettlement and Government Low-Cost Housing building programmes, and on the balance between these and other types of housing, is now actively considering an interdepartmental study of these questions. Its deliberations may result in recommendations which, if accepted, would have the effect of modifying the priorities for resettlement, and it seems to me that in any event Government would wish to consult the statutory body which has responsibilities in the field of resettlement, namely this Council, on the recommendations of the Board, at least insofar as these recommendations impinge upon their responsibilities.
Dr. LEE suggested that the Resettlement and Government Low-Cost Housing programmes are restricted by a shortage of sites in the urban areas and pled for the development of outlying areas. I do not believe that a shortage of sites has up to now been a limiting factor, any more than a shortage of funds as suggested by Mr. LAM, but rather the time which it takes to form a site and carry out the associated engineering work. Nor has there been any hesitancy about opening up outlying areas: what else were Tsz Wan Shan, Ham Tin, Yau Tong and even Chai Wan (to mention only four) a few years ago? Even the sites of Shek Kip Mei and Tai Hang Tung were, within very recent memory, in the foothills to the north of Kowloon. But Dr. LEE has pointed to the time, which is fast approaching, when there will be no more suitable sites left south of the Kowloon hills, and when all resettlement will have to be in the New Territories. Bearing in mind the reluctance of our existing tenants to move away from their present homes, to which I have already referred, it may not be easy to persuade urban squatters
£279
Page 219 of 279
410
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
refuse collection service which has had some effect. The incidence of litter is not nearly so serious in the Mark III and IV estates where refuse chutes are available and where the grilles on the private balconies which most tenants install inhibit the practice of throwing rubbish over the side. The problems of sanitation and litter to which hawkers give rise in estates will, I am sure, be easier to tackle when the plan to which Mr. BERNACCHI referred is put into effect. I hope that, whatever their personal views, all members will give this plan full and public backing as a decision of this Council.
I agree with several members in this debate that the ultimate solution to the problem of litter, to relieving overcrowding, and to raising the standard of housing in the older estates, is to convert the present bare rooms into small self-contained flats with, if possible, their own washing, cooking and toilet facilities. But as Mr. Kenneth Lo rightly pointed out, it would be necessary to rehouse the occupants of the buildings undergoing conversion, at the expense of many thousands who might otherwise be resettled from the even more deplorable conditions to which I earlier referred. Once again we are up against a question of priorities, and I am firmly of the view that conversion of the old estates must wait a little longer until we have made a bigger impression upon the housing problem as a whole, and at least until we have alternative accommodation nearer at hands to which we can move those who have to be replaced.
In one aspect of conditions in the old estates, I do see a prospect of some improvement before very long, that is in reducing the serious degree of overcrowding which has developed since they were built ten or twelve years ago. Members know as well as I do the difficulty of persuading residents to move to a new estate. When an estate is com- pleted and already full, it is only rarely that a room falls vacant which we can use to relieve the overcrowded conditions in which other residents are living. For most of them, the only hope of obtaining a larger room is to move to another estate, but this they will not do because it means severance from the father's place of work or the children's schooling. I am satisfied that, in general, it is these reasons rather than the higher rents prevailing in the new estates which deter people from transferring to a new location. My hopes for an improvement in this situation are pinned on the new estate close to Shek Kip Mei for which site formation is now in progress, since this should be near enough not only to Shek Kip Mei but also to Tai Hang Tung and Li Cheng Uk to encourage a sizeable movement of population out of them. I believe that a number of our tenants also have this solution of their present troubles in mind.
Over the last year or more members have from time to time put forward suggestions which would have the effect of changing or adding to the priority categories for resettlement laid down in paragraph 15 of the White Paper. They did so at our annual debate a year ago, and
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
411
again this year, although the proposals aired on these two occasions do not entirely coincide. The Resettlement Policy and Management Select Committees considered this matter at a joint meeting in March 1966 when they agreed that piecemeal changes in the priorities should be avoided, and that a review of them should be deferred until Govern- ment's decisions on the recommendations made by the Working Party on Slum Clearance were available, since these could affect both the composition and the quantity of existing resettlement commitments. It was not, as Dr. BELL suggested, that we are awaiting the further report of some other committee set up to study the Slum Clearance report, and indeed I am not aware of the existence of any such committee. Government has received and analysed the comments of the various Government departments and of most other bodies, including this Council, whose advice was sought on the report, and I understand that, before seeking decisions from Executive Council and the Finance Com- mittee of Legislative Council, it is necessary to work out the implications of the report which, in the field of legislation alone, are bound to be considerable.
Meanwhile, the Housing Board, which is required to advise the Governor on the extension or modification of the Resettlement and Government Low-Cost Housing building programmes, and on the balance between these and other types of housing, is now actively con- sidering an interdepartmental study of these questions. Its deliberations may result in recommendations which, if accepted, would have the effect of modifying the priorities for resettlement, and it seems to me that in any event Government would wish to consult the statutory body which has responsibilities in the field of resettlement, namely this Council, on the recommendations of the Board, at least insofar as these recommenda- tions impinge upon their responsibilities.
Dr. LEE suggested that the Resettlement and Government Low- Cost Housing programmes are restricted by a shortage of sites in the urban areas and pled for the development of outlying areas. I do not believe that a shortage of sites has up to now been a limiting factor, any more than a shortage of funds as suggested by Mr. LAM, but rather the time which it takes to form a site and carry out the associated engineer- ing work. Nor has there been any hesitancy about opening up outlying areas: what else were Tsz Wan Shan, Ham Tin, Yau Tong and even Chai Wan (to mention only four) a few years ago? Even the sites of Shek Kip Mei and Tai Hang Tung were, within very recent memory, in the foothills to the north of Kowloon. But Dr. LEE has pointed to the time, which is fast approaching, when there will be no more suitable sites left south of the Kowloon hills, and when all resettlement will have to be in the New Territories. Bearing in mind the reluctance of our existing tenants to move away from their present homes, to which I have already referred, it may not be easy to persuade urban squatters
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