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CHAIRMAN:-I see no harm whatsoever in sending this information forward.
DR. BELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, in paragraph 3 of the Commissioner's reply, he says that the present programme for relief of overcrowding in estates operates when the density of a room reaches 16 sq. ft. per adult. Would the Commissioner say this is true of Li Cheng Uk, Shek Kip Mei and Tai Hang Tung or Kwun Tong, or would he say that the density there must reach 12 sq. ft. before decantation takes place in the same area?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-It is perfectly true that some families in the older estates do not in fact get larger rooms until they have reached such a high density as suggested by Mrs. ELLIOTT. The reason for this is as explained by Mr. LI Yiu-bor in his answer. Many families in the older estates will not consent to transfer to another estate in order to get a larger room and, of course, only a very limited number of rooms in these older estates fall empty for one reason or another. If a family which is already at 16 sq. ft. insists on waiting until a room of appropriate size becomes vacant in the same estate, it may well reach a density of 15 or 14 or even more before their turn comes. It is not that they are not offered or considered for relief of overcrowding, it is normally that they refuse to move out of the estate.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, if it is not too far from the mark, would Mr. BARTY be able to tell us to which estate these people might be sent if they cannot be decanted in the same area?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-At present we have accommodation in Tse Wan Shan that we are offering for this purpose. We can also offer accommodation, or we could—I am not sure if we still have it—offer some accommodation in Kwai Chung.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, is it not more frequent for them to be asked to go to Sau Mau Ping or Kam Tin?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That may be so. I am not sure if we are using a block or two at Sau Mau Ping, but that may well be. Of course, it varies from time to time as blocks fill up.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I asked that question because I would like to confirm with Mr. BARTY if possible that many people are willing to go to Tse Wan Shan, but they are not willing to go to Kam Tin because of the distance and the bad bus service.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That may well be, Mr. Chairman, but of course, there are lots of other people willing to go to Tse Wan Shan at this present time, and some of them may have higher priority.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Thank you.
(8) DR. A. M. S. BELL asked the following question:
What short and long term steps are being taken to improve the living and sanitary conditions and recreation and amenity facilities in the older resettlement estates?
THE COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT replied as follows:
This question refers to the living and sanitary conditions and recreation and amenity facilities in the older resettlement estates, and what short and long term steps are being taken to improve them. I propose to deal with the short term first.
2.
By "living conditions" I understand that Dr. BELL is referring to overcrowding. Under the present programme approved by the Resettlement Policy Select Committee for the relief of overcrowding, larger rooms are offered when the density in a room reaches 16 sq. ft. per adult. But, as my friend Mr. Li Yiu-bor has explained in reply to the last question, many of the overcrowded families in the older estates are not prepared to sever their local ties and move to larger rooms which become available for the most part in the new and more outlying estates. I hope that the new Cheung Sha Wan and Pak Tin estates, which will be close to some of the older and more crowded ones, will go a long way towards solving this problem.
3. The staff responsible for sanitation in the older estates have a very difficult task because of the habits of the residents, the presence of large numbers of hawkers, and the design of the buildings. Open balconies offer a constant temptation to throw rubbish over the side, and there is less incentive for residents to assist in keeping communal lavatories and washing areas clean than there is when such facilities are private and for their own sole use. Within the Resettlement Department, we are at present trying to formulate certain proposals for improving two-way contacts between the staff and residents of estates whereby information, advice, and encouragement may be more effectively put across. One of the objec-
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CHAIRMAN:-I see no harm whatsoever in sending this information
forward.
DR. BELL:Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, in paragraph 3 of the Commis- sioner's reply, he says that the present programme for relief of over- crowding in estates operates when the density of a room reaches 16 sq. ft. per adult. Would the Commissioner say this is true of Li Cheng Uk, Shek Kip Mei and Tai Hang Tung or Kwun Tong, or would he say that the density there must reach 12 sq. ft. before decantation takes place in the same area?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -It is perfectly true that some families in the older estates do not in fact get larger rooms until they have reached such a high density as suggested by Mrs. ELLIOTT. The reason for this is as explained by Mr. LI Yiu-bor in his answer. Many families in the older estates will not consent to transfer to another estate in order to get a larger room and, of course, only a very limited number of rooms in these older estates fall empty for one reason or another. If a family which is already at 16 sq. ft. insists on waiting until a room of appropriate size becomes vacant in the same estate, it may well reach a density of 15 or 14 or even more before their turn comes. It is not that they are not offered or con- sidered for relief of overcrowding, it is normally that they refuse to move out of the estate.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, if it is not too far from the mark, would Mr. BARTY be able to tell us to which estate these people might be sent if they cannot be decanted in the same area?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-At present we have accom- modation in Tse Wan Shan that we are offering for this purpose. We can also offer accommodation, or we could-I am not sure if we still have it offer some accommodation in Kwai Chung.
MRS. ELLIOTT: -Mr. Chairman, is it not more frequent for them
to be asked to go to Sau Mau Ping or Kam Tin?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That may be so. I am not sure if we are using a block or two at Sau Mau Ping, but that may well be. Of course it varies from time to time as blocks fill up.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I asked that question because I would like to confirm with Mr. BARTY if possible that many people are willing to go to Tse Wan Shan, but they are not willing to go to Kam Tin because of the distance and the bad bus service.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That may well be Mr. Chairman, but of course there are lots of other people willing to go to
:
Tse Wan Shan at this present time, and some of them may have higher priority.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Thank you.
(8) DR. A. M. S. BELL asked the following question:
What short and long term steps are being taken to improve the living and sanitary conditions and recreation and amenity facilities in the older resettlement estates?
THE COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT replied as follows:
This question refers to the living and sanitary conditions and recreation and amenity facilities in the older resettlement estates, and what short and long term steps are being taken to improve them. I propose to deal with the short term first.
2.
By "living conditions" I understand that Dr. BELL is re- ferring to overcrowding. Under the present programme approved by the Resettlement Policy Select Committee for the relief of overcrowding, larger rooms are offered when the density in a room reaches 16 sq. ft. per adult. But, as my friend Mr. Li Yiu-bor has explained in reply to the last question, many of the overcrowded families in the older estates are not prepared to sever their local ties and move to larger rooms which become available for the most part in the new and more outlying estates. I hope that the new Cheung Sha Wan and Pak Tin estates, which will be close to some of the older and more crowded ones, will go a long way towards solving this problem.
3. The staff responsible for sanitation in the older estates have a very difficult task because of the habits of the residents, the presence of large numbers of hawkers, and the design of the buildings. Open balconies offer a con- stant temptation to throw rubbish over the side, and there is less incentive for residents to assist in keeping communal lavatories and washing arcas clean than there is when such facilities are private and for their own sole use. Within the Resettlement Department we are at present trying to formulate certain proposals for improv- ing two-way contacts between the staff and residents of estates whereby information, advice and encouragement may be more effectively put across. One of the objec-
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