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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
As regards the second part of the question, the Director of Social Welfare and I, and a number of voluntary agencies, are well aware that there is a need for more day nurseries, play centres and kindergartens in resettlement estates. In completed estates, practically all the available space is already occupied or allocated and I do not think it is possible to make any significant addition to the number of new nurseries, play centres or kindergartens unless other existing welfare or school premises are surrendered. In new 16-storey estates under construction or being planned, it is not possible for structural reasons to allocate welfare premises within the domestic blocks. Instead, separate social welfare centres will be built in each estate, with space inside them for various welfare activities including day nurseries and the like. The first of these centres are likely to be built in Ham Tin and in the later stages of Tsz Wan Shan and Sau Mau Ping estates.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- I am well aware of the need for day nurseries and play centres, Mr. Chairman. Now what is going to be done in respect of Hung Hom, Jordan Valley, Shek Kip Mei, Tai Hang Tung and Ham Tin, where there are no day nurseries?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- My I refer Mr. CHEONG-LEEN to the second sentence of the third paragraph of my reply.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, isn't that a negative answer? I am asking for a positive reply.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I would welcome a positive suggestion from Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- I think the positive reply should come from the person answering the question instead of the person asking the question. I think that first of all the question should be referred to the committee of my colleague, Mr. Li Yui-bor, and, secondly, that that committee should consider whether it is possible to resettle some of the residents in these very over-crowded estates to make space available for nurseries.
Now I would like to ask the next supplementary. Would the Commissioner agree that the serious shortage of nurseries in many of our estates has a direct relation to the fact that we have 17,000 vacant primary school places, and also the fact that 21,000 children of primary school age are not going to school?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I have said so on many occasions in reply to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's questions about school vacancies.
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195
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- I am very glad that this is the view of the Department, because I do feel very strongly that since we have this many vacant school places we must make every effort to see that these unfortunate children go to school. I think it is time that we should scotch the attitude taken by the Government Information Services that Government is over-fulfilling its target of primary school places. What is the good of having vacant primary school places if there are children who are not going to school? We ought to have compulsory primary education in our resettlement estates.
DR. BELL:- Sir, may I ask a supplementary on this question? May I know whether there are nurseries and kindergartens which are in existence that are free or if fees are required for them?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I could not answer for all of them, perhaps Mr. TODD can. I know of some nurseries which have a deliberate policy to charge a small fee unless case workers establish that the families are too impoverished to pay. I think the purpose behind the small fee is to maintain the self-respect of the families who are making use of these facilities.
DR. BELL: Have you any idea of what the small fee is?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: I know of two places where, as far as I remember, the standard fee is something between $5 and $15 per month. Perhaps Mr. TODD could confirm that?
DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- Sir, the figure does vary. $15 is a figure I have heard quoted quite frequently. I have heard of fees as high as $20, but there are nurseries which charge distinctly less than this, and I think most of the nurseries do provide for free places for those who really cannot afford the fee.
DR. BELL:- Mr. Chairman, that is higher, substantially higher I think, than the Government primary school places. Could I ask whether consideration could be given, by the Social Welfare Office in particular, if free nurseries could be made available to the people in the Colony in areas where they are required. It is, I think, done in other places, and there are free nurseries available for working mothers to leave their children during the day. They are usually maintained, I think out of the rates of the town.
DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:- With due respect, Mr. Chairman, I think that is considerably beyond the scope of the original question.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Sir, before I proceed to my next question, may I congratulate you on being so gallant as to allow Dr. BELL to speak on the need for nurseries outside resettlement estates, and I would ask you also to be just as gracious in allowing me to say that
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194
3.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
As regards the second part of the question, the Director of Social Welfare and I, and a number of voluntary agencies, are well aware that there is a need for more day nurseries, play centres and kindergartens in resettle- ment estate. In completed estates, practically all the available space is already occupied or allocated and I do not think it is possible to make any significant addition to the number of new nurseries, play centres or kinder- gartens unless other existing welfare or school premises are surrendered. In new 16-storey estates under con- struction or being planned, it is not possible for structural reasons to allocate welfare premises within the domestic blocks. Instead, separate social welfare centres will be built in each estate, with space inside them for various welfare activities including day nurseries and the like. The first of these centres are likely to be built in Ham Tin and in the later stages of Tsz Wan Shan and Sau Mau Ping estates.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I am well aware for the need of day nurseries and play centres, Mr. Chairman. Now what is going to be done in respect of Hung Hom, Jordan Valley, Shek Kip Mei, Tai Hang Tung and Ham Tin, where there are no day nurseries?
COMMISSIONER for ResettlemENT: -My I refer Mr. CHEONG-LEEN to the second sentence of the third paragraph of my reply.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, isn't that
1 am asking for a positive reply.
negative answer?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I would welcome a positive suggestion from Mr. CHEONG-LEEN,
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I think the positive reply should come from the person answering the question instead of the person asking the question. I think that first of all the question should be referred to the committee of my colleague, Mr. Li Yui-bor, and, secondly, that that committee should consider whether it is possible to resettle some of the residents in these very over-crowded estates to make space available for nurseries.
Now I would like to ask the next supplementary. Would the Commissioner agree that the serious shortage of nurseries in many of our estates has a direct relation to the fact that we have 17,000 vacant primary school places, and also the fact that 21,000 children of primary school age are not going to school?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I have said so on many occasions in reply to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's questions about school vacancies.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
195
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I am very glad that this is the view of the Department, because I do feel very strongly that since we have this many vacant school places we must make every effort to see that these unfortunate children go to school. I think it is time that we should scotch the attitude taken by the Government Information Services that Government is over-fulfilling its target of primary school places. What is the good of having vacant primary school places if there are children who are not going to school? We ought to have compulsory primary edcation in our resettlement estates.
DR. BELL:—Sir, may I ask a supplementary on this question? May I know whether there are nurseries and kindergardens which are in existence that are free or if fees are required for them?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I could not answer for all of them, perhaps Mr. TODD can. I know of some nurseries which have a deliberate policy to charge a small fee unless case workers establish that the families are too impoverished to pay. I think the purpose behind the small fee is to maintain the self respect of the families who are making use of these facilities.
DR. BELL: Have you any idea of what the small fee is?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: I know of two places where, as far as I remember, the standard fee is something between $5 and $15 per month.
Perhaps Mr. TODD could confirm that?
DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-Sir, the figure does vary. $15 is a figure I have heard quoted quite frequently. I have heard of fees as high as $20, but there are nurseries which charge distinctly less than this, and I think most of the nurseries do provide for free places for those who really cannot afford the fee.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, that is higher, substantially higher I think, than the Government primary school places. Could I ask whether consideration could be given, by the Social Welfare Office in particular, if free nurseries could be made available to the people in the Colony in areas where they are required. It is, I think, done in other places, and there are free nurseries available for working mothers to leave their children during the day. They are usually maintained, I think out of the rates of the town.
DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE:-With due respect, Mr. Chairman, I think that is considerably beyond the scope of the original question.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Sir, before I proceed to my next question, may I congratulate you on being so gallant as to allow Dr. BELL to speak on the need for nurseries outside resettlement estates, and I would ask you also to be just as gracious in allowing me to say that
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