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suitable legislation to provide for the Director of Education to be a member of the Urban Council.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to support my reasoning in this way. That with these (of course, I have other loop-holes) (Laughter). Modifications and Reservations in the White Paper, the greatest loop-hole that I can ever imagine is that the Legislative Council has delegated all the power to the Education Department to make law. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that my purpose in making this speech is that it is desirable that the Director of Education should be a member of this Council, so that these loop-holes or these doubts which I respectfully submit to this Council could be clarified, Sir, if you will permit me to say my last loop-hole, (Laughter) I will refer to paragraph 2 of the Modifications and Reservations. It reads: "In some cases recommendations are to the effect that 'Government should review ... or 'Government should consider ... or 'Government will need to decide ...
Acceptance of recommenda-
tions so phrased either explicitly or by implication means no more than that at this stage the need to make such review or decision is accepted, and does not imply that the proposal which has to be considered is itself accepted or rejected." That, I respectfully submit, is the greatest loop-hole I can ever imagine—that Legislative Council has delegated its power to the Education Department.
I would support the motion because if the Director of Education is a member of this Council, then these loop-holes or doubts could be clarified. For this reason, Mr. Chairman, and based on this White Paper which you have so kindly sent to me, (Laughter) if you had not sent it to me then I could not have read it, (Prolonged laughter), I support the motion. It is the Legislative Council which gives the power to the Education Department and I do respectfully submit that this will never happen if the Director of Education is a member of this Council. (MR. BERNACCHI:-hear, hear).
MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, the proposer of this motion made a very powerful and persuasive speech, in the course of which many strong statements were put forward. My friend's motion has been very ably supported by other Elected Members. I would like to say this—If I may speak for the Appointed Members I believe that they share this view in common—that our sentiments are with the substance of the motion insofar as it is intended to achieve better education and more facilities for one and all in Hong Kong. We subscribe to the view that every child should be entitled to a minimum of education either entirely or partly at public expense—that is the basis of an enlightened society. At the same time, MR. CHEONG-LEEN has made the statement that perhaps London may not be aware of the sentiments of the people here, in this and other respects. Sir, I think that on such an important
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issue as that which is before the Council, it is not the membership of the Director of Education that is at issue, however the motion may be worded. It is better education for every child in Hong Kong, and in that respect the Appointed Members feel that Government cannot avoid making its intentions known to this Council. For that reason, Sir, I ask whether you are going to speak because there are two sides to this question and we would like to know why and how that purpose may be achieved: whether through membership of the Director of Education on this Council or in some other way that Government may suggest to us. I think that this Council is entitled to know what is Government's position and we would like you to state it categorically for us this afternoon.
CHAIRMAN:-I have only this to say, Sir. Educational policy in Hong Kong remains, as I understand it, a matter for other Councils rather than this one. (MR. BERNACCHI:-Shame!) Thus, while I have listened with close interest to the views expressed to-day, I propose to vote against the motion.
MR. SALES:-Sir, it is not a question of voting for the motion or against the motion. It is a question of this Council being told in clear and unequivocal terms what the position is and should be. There is no pleasure for the Unofficial Members having this motion passed because if Government votes against it it will be a dead letter. What I believe the Unofficial Members want to achieve is a full and clear reply, and if you require that time be given to you to go into this matter with all the relevant Government departments and Councils, I think that the proposer and seconder of this motion should give you that time. I believe we want to achieve a progressive policy on education in Hong Kong. There is no pleasure in having an empty victory, so I suggest, if you are unable to give a categorical answer, that my colleagues across the table agree that a postponement of consideration of this motion be made so that the matter is laid on the table until you are ready to speak to us. Then we will proceed to vote. That to me seems to be the most intelligent course to pursue because there is no pleasure in, as I have said, having a motion passed without knowing exactly what the official policy is with regard to this particular matter, and I would suggest that MR. CHEONG-LEEN give serious thought to giving time to you to refer this matter and the text of all the speeches to Government, and at the next meeting or the meeting after that, a reply be made in full to the satisfaction of this Council. Whether Government agrees or not is immaterial, but a reply in full should be made and to achieve this purpose I suggest, through you, Mr. Chairman, that MR. CHEONG-LEEN consider Standing Order 10(17)(b).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask MR. SALES, through you, whether he had in mind postponement for a limited, or for want of a better term, "a reasonable period of time"?
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suitable legislation to provide for the Director of Education to be a member of the Urban Council.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I would like to support my reasoning in this way. That with these (of course, I have other loop-holes) (Laughter). Modifications and Reservations in the White Paper, the greatest loop-hole that I can ever imagine is that the Legislative Council has delegated all the power to the Education Department to make law. I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that my purpose in making this speech is that it is desirable that the Director of Education should be a member of this Council, so that these loop-holes or these doubts which I respectfully submit to this Council could be clarified, Sir, if you will permit me to say my last loop-hole, (Laughter) I will refer to paragraph 2 of the Modifications and Reservations. It reads: "In some cases recommendations are to the effect that 'Government should review ... or 'Government should consider ... or 'Government will need to decide .
Acceptance of recommenda-
·
tions so phrased either explicitly or by implication means no more than that at this stage the need to make such review or decision is accepted, and does not imply that the proposal which has to be considered is itself accepted or rejected." That, I respectfully submit, is the greatest loop-hole I can ever imagine-that Legislative Council has delegated its power to the Education Department.
I would support the motion because if the Director of Education is a member of this Council, then these loop-holes or doubts could be clarified. For this reason, Mr. Chairman, and based on this White Paper which you have so kindly sent to me, (Laughter) if you had not sent it to me then I could not have read it, (Prolonged laughter), I support the motion. It is the Legislative Council which gives the power to the Education Department and I do respectfully submit that this will never happen if the Director of Education is a member of this Council. (MR. BERNACCHI:-hear, hear).
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, the proposer of this motion made a very powerful and persuasive speech, in the course of which many strong statements were put forward. My friend's motion has been very ably supported by other Elected Members. I would like to say this- If I may speak for the Appointed Members I believe that they share this view in common- that our sentiments are with the substance of the motion insofar as it is intended to achieve better education and more facilities for one and all in Hong Kong. We subscribe to the view that every child should be entitled to a minimum of education either entirely or partly at public expense-that is the basis of an enlightened society. At the same time, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN has made the statement that perhaps London may not be aware of the sentiments of the people here, in this and other respects. Sir, I think that on such an important
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
101
issue as that which is before the Council, it is not the membership of the Director of Education that is at issue, however the motion may be worded. It is better education for every child in Hong Kong, and in that respect the Appointed Members feel that Government cannot avoid making its intentions known to this Council. For that reason, Sir, I ask whether you are going to speak because there are two sides to this question and we would like to know why and how that purpose may be achieved: whether through membership of the Director of Education on this Council or in some other way that Government may suggest to us. I think that this Council is entitled to know what is Govern- ment's position and we would like you to state it categorically for us this afternoon.
CHAIRMAN:-I have only this to say, Sir. Educational policy in Hong Kong remains, as I understand it, a matter for other Councils rather than this one. (MR. BERNACCHI:-Shame!) Thus, while I have listened with close interest to the views expressed to-day, I propose to vote against the motion.
MR. SALES-Sir, it is not a question of voting for the motion or against the motion. It is a question of this Council being told in clear and unequivocal terms what the position is and should be. There is no pleasure for the Unofficial Members having this motion passed because if Government votes against it it will be a dead letter. What I believe the Unofficial Members want to achieve is a full and clear reply, and if you require that time be given to you to go into this matter with all the relevant Government departments and Councils, I think that the proposer and seconder of this motion should give you that time. I believe we want to achieve a progressive policy on educa- tion in Hong Kong. There is no pleasure in having an empty victory, so I suggest, if you are unable to give a categorical answer, that my colleagues across the table agree that a postponement of consideration of this motion be made so that the matter is laid on the table until you are ready to speak to us. Then we will proceed to vote. That to me seems to be the most intelligent course to pursue because there is no pleasure in, as I have said, having a motion passed without know- ing exactly what the official policy is with regard to this particular matter, and I would suggest that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN give serious thought to giving time to you to refer this matter and the text of all the speeches to Government, and at the next meeting or the meeting after that, a reply be made in full to the satisfaction of this Council. Whether Government agrees or not is immaterial, but a reply in full should be made and to achieve this purpose I suggest, through you, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN consider Standing Order 10(17)(b).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask Mr. SALES, through you, whether he had in mind postponement for a limited, or for want of a better term, "a reasonable period of time"?
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.