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us with ready-made territorial divisions. It only remains for us to put in motion the necessary machinery to provide legislation to have a Member for each ward, or Members for certain large ones. This would mean that a Member could have the problems and possibilities of his ward at his finger-tips at all times and furthermore it would provide an incentive to Members to be continuously interested in the affairs of his ward and not just at election time.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I support this motion, confident that its implementation will be of definite benefit to the community and will not provoke insuperable difficulties.

MR. HENRY Hu:-Mr. Chairman, I support the motion whole- heartedly, but I think that this ward system as a matter of fact should have materialized long ago—it should have materialized before I joined the Council. (Laughter). So I would like the Council to proceed with this matter without any delay. I support the motion.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, silence is golden, but what is happen- ing to the Civic Association? Are they not having a stand over this important issue? May we hear their views, Sir?

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, Mr. Solomon RAFEEK has spoken very eloquently in favour of this motion.

MR. SALES: Do I understand, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. RAFEEK has spoken for and on behalf of the Civic Association? (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. SALES is quite solid enough to understand that. (Laughter).

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may it then be recorded that Mr. RAFEEK has spoken for the Civic Association. We would certainly like to hear Government's views before we put forward our own.

CHAIRMAN:-I have very little to say on this motion. I think that the views which have been expressed are unexceptionable. As Mr. BERNACCHI quite correctly pointed out, we have the analogy of Members who visit resettlement estates, and I believe that everything that has been said so far by the speakers on this motion has made good sense. But there is, it seems to me, some slight divergence in the views expressed. One point which is not clear to me is whether it would be essential to have legislation to introduce a system of this sort or whether it could be implemented straightaway simply by, as it were, parcelling out the Colony into districts, as Dr. LEE already intends to

do.

There is the question of the standing of a Member in relation to the public in matters of this sort and also the question of staff and offices mentioned as centres to which people could come. I feel that

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it would be advisable to have a more precise definition agreed amongst Members as to what we intend by the ward system. I would like to suggest tentatively that a sensible step would be to refer this matter for further discussion and closer definition to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.

MR. SALES--Mr. Chairman, as our Elected friends are always so eager to follow up suggestions put up by Government for amending motions, do they not want to take you up on the suggestion which you have just put forward? (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, as I understand it, there was no suggestion made to amend anything.

MR. SALES: On a point of clarification, may I now also speak on this motion, lest I be thought a "muk tau" so charmingly put by Dr. BELL earlier in her speech. (Laughter).

DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, may I say

I never used such a word or even meant such a thing. (Laughter).

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, I would like to mention the danger of having two languages because I did a bit of transliteration from "solid head" and I reached the conclusion that it was "muk tau”. (Laughter).

Sir, we are really living in restless times. Recently, I read in the newspapers that the Welsh did a bit of burning of a national flag and were massing their choirs for a frontal assault on English ear-drums. Subsequently, I learnt again through the papers that the Scots very generously offered to strengthen the English pound by introducing their own notes into the southern part of the United Kingdom. (Laughter). Therefore, I am prompted to enquire, through you, Sir, from Mr. BERNACCHI Whether the platform of the Reform Club in respect of decentralization means in effect that Kowloon will have autonomy in time to come, should we live under the Reform Club dispensation. If so, then the Reform Club would be merely echoing my own platform for years on end that there should be no taxation without representation for Kowloon residents. (Laughter).

Sir, in this matter of the ward system, I feel that we should not overlook the fact that Members of the Urban Council are already assuming separate functional responsibilities, and Members of the Urban Council have been doing so for many years. Now it is a question of assuming also territorial responsibilities separately. Perhaps if the term "ward" were overlooked, then there would not be so much fear and so much objection to what Dr. LEE is suggesting. I am not putting forward an amendment, but I am just recommending that in considering this matter of responsibility we should avoid the use of the term "the