HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
also accept your position, Mr. Chairman, but I can only hope that there will be no recurrence of this matter, otherwise I will be even more convinced than I am at the present time that Select Committees are only consulted when it is expedient so to do.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, may I ask you that if a Member should direct a question to the Director of Urban Services for reply, say, on urban amenities, is not that Member entitled to have that reply given by the Director of Urban Services rather than the Chairman of the Urban Amenities Select Committee?
MR. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, the Director of Urban Services is not a member of this Council, is he? (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Mr. Chairman, may I clarify that. Should the reply come from the Chairman of the Urban Council who is also the Director of Urban Services?
CHAIRMAN:- Possibly, Sir, but I do not like to be too firm on the matter. It has always been my wish that as many answers as possible should be given to this Council by the Chairmen of Select Committees.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, there are certainly very valid reasons why a Member would wish that a reply on any particular subject should be given by the Chairman rather than by the Chairman of a Select Committee. I think that that is a point which should be clarified for the benefit of Members of this Council. Therefore, as Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee, I think this point should be raised at the next meeting of that Committee.
CHAIRMAN:- You could conveniently take it, Sir, while censuring me for my indiscretion earlier at this meeting. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Not so; I am only trying to help you, Mr. Chairman.
MR. BERNACCHI:- Coming back with another supplementary on the answer given, Mr. Chairman, can this matter be hurried up?
CHAIRMAN:- Yes, Sir.
MOTIONS.
(1) MR. A. de O. SALES moved the following motion:
That this Council ask Government for the land set aside as open space in the plans for the re-development of the former Naval Dockyard so that it may be put to public use without delay.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
He said:- Sir, at the last Council meeting we were reminded that it was not really correct to say that there was no open space for public use between Kennedy Town and Shau Kei Wan, except Victoria Park, because in the plans for the re-development of the Central District provision was made for just such an open space amounting to 6.1 acres. Hence my motion.
Sir, there is nothing sinister in this Council wanting more open space for recreational purposes. On the contrary, were this Council not to ask and keep asking for pleasure grounds, we would be letting the public down, particularly in a place such as Hong Kong, where people live in such high density and where the population is so great within a very confined area. Here again, Sir, is the reason for the Urban Amenities Select Committee wanting more land for development as recreational amenities. The time to start asking for this piece of land is now, because the machinery has to be set in motion. The Urban Services Department must determine the best use to which this land should be put. Other departments must concern themselves with the lease, the drawing up of plans, the obtaining of money, the establishing of priorities, and so on. Every piece of open land that Government can give to the people of Hong Kong is not too many and no equipment is too much, because there is in fact a very great need--that need is apparent to one and all. Therefore, Sir, I am putting forward this motion to-day because I was reminded last month of this intention on the part of Government. The time to start is now, without delay, and certainly there can be no justification for procrastinating.
I therefore, Sir, propose the motion appearing as item 4(1) on the agenda.
MR. J. L. MARDEN:- Mr. Chairman, in rising to second Mr. SALES' motion, I would like to stress the overall need in Hong Kong for more and more open spaces, and quickly. Every day one reads in the papers of hooliganism, rowdyism and the growth of teenage gangs not only in the streets but also in licensed premises. We should be failing in our civic duty (perhaps I should say reform duty) if we did not take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself to increase outdoor recreational facilities for the youth of Hong Kong, more particularly as the area which is the subject of this motion is so close to Wan Chai. Unfortunately for the ad hoc committee on indoor stadia, the area is too small for a "stately pleasure dome" so there is no need to fight them.
However, it is close to the harbour, that vast open space which is hardly used at all--except in the Lai Chi Kok area--for purely pleasure purposes. We should perhaps exercise our minds more on this aspect. The removal of the boat squatters, and for that matter the pleasure craft, from the Causeway Bay typhoon shelter--(there is certainly a need to remove the former from the Yau Ma Tei shelter to provide more...
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
also accept your position, Mr. Chairman, but I can only hope that there will be no recurrence of this matter, otherwise I will be even more convinced than I am at the present time that Select Com- mittees are only consulted when it is expedient so to do.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on a point of clarification, may I ask you that if a Member should direct a question to the Director of Urban Services for reply, say, on urban amenities, is not that Member entitled to have that reply given by the Director of Urban Services rather than the Chairman of the Urban Amenities Select Committee?
MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, the Director of Urban Services is not a member of this Council, is he? (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I clarify that. Should the reply come from the Chairman of the Urban Council who is also the Director of Urban Services?
CHAIRMAN: --Possibly, Sir, but I do not like to be too firm on the matter. It has always been my wish that as many answers as possible should be given to this Council by the Chairmen of Select Committees.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, there are certainly very valid reasons why a Member would wish that a reply on any particular subject should be given by the Chairman rather than by the Chairman of a Select Committee. I think that that is a point which should be clarified for the benefit of Members of this Council. There- fore, as Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Com- mittee, I think this point should be raised at the next meeting of that Committee.
CHAIRMAN:-You could conveniently take it, Sir, while censuring me for my indiscretion earlier at this meeting. (Laughter).
MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Not so; I am only trying to help you, Mr. Chairman.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Coming back with another supplementary on the answer given, Mr. Chairman, can this matter be hurried up?
CHAIRMAN: -Yes, Sir.
MOTIONS.
(1) MR. A. de O. SALES moved the following motion:
That this Council ask Government for the land set aside as open space in the plans for the re-development of the former Naval Dockyard so that it may be put to public use without delay.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
75
He said:-Sir, at the last Council meeting we were reminded that it was not really correct to say that there was no open space for public use between Kennedy Town and Shau Kei Wan, except Victoria Park, because in the plans for the re-development of the Central District pro- vision was made for just such an open space amounting to 6.1 acres. Hence my motion.
Sir, there is nothing sinister in this Council wanting more open space for recreational purposes. On the contrary, were this Council not to ask and keep asking for pleasure grounds, we would be letting the public down, particularly in a place such as Hong Kong, where people live in such high density and where the population is so great within a very confined area. Here again, Sir, is the reason for the Urban Amenities Select Committee wanting more land for development as recreational amenities. The time to start asking for this piece of land is now, because the machinery has to be set in motion. The Urban Services Department must determine the best use to which this land should be put. Other departments must concern themselves with the lease, the drawing up of plans, the obtaining of money, the establishing of priorities, and so on. Every piece of open land that Government can give to the people of Hong Kong is not too many and no equipment is too much, because there is in fact a very great need--that need is apparent to one and all. Therefore, Sir, I am putting forward this motion to-day because I was reminded last month of this intention on the part of Government. The time to start is now, without delay, and certainly there can be no justification for procrastinating.
I therefore, Sir, propose the motion appearing as item 4(1) on the agenda.
MR. J. L. MARDEN:-Mr. Chairman, in rising to second Mr. SALES' motion, I would like to stress the overall need in Hong Kong for more and more open spaces, and quickly. Every day one reads in the papers of hooliganism, rowdyism and the growth of teenage gangs not only in the streets but also in licensed premises. We should be failing in our civic duty (perhaps I should say reform duty) if we did not take advantage of every opportunity that presents itself to increase outdoor recreational facilities for the youth of Hong Kong, more particularly as the area which is the subject of this motion is so close to Wan Chai. Unfortunately for the ad hoc committee on indoor stadia, the area is too small for a "stately pleasure dome" so there is no need to fight them.
However, it is close to the harbour, that vast open space which is hardly used at all-except in the Lai Chi Kok area--for purely pleasure purposes. We should perhaps exercise our minds more on this aspect. The removal of the boat squatters, and for that matter the pleasure craft, from the Causeway Bay typhoon shelter-(there is certainly a need to remove the former from the Yau Ma Tei shelter to provide more
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