1965 — Page 41

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

hope that the beach will be in a good state before the start of the school holidays this year.

As regards your remarks, Sir, about the position of the Council in respect of beaches and amenities in the New Territories generally, I can only say that I await your observations with keen interest. It was the subject of long and exhaustive exchanges between Mr. BERNACCHI and myself in this Council at the end of 1963 and in March 1964.

MR. SALES:—Sir, I rise on a point of order. I listened with tremendous interest to your points, but I wonder whether you are aware, Sir, that you are not exactly within Standing Orders in rising to reply to me. If you did so as a member of my Select Committee, all you could do was to dissociate yourself from my remarks and not make a speech. In the circumstances, Sir, I would like to refer your conduct at this meeting to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee.

CHAIRMAN:---Please do so.

MR. BERNACCHI :-On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, unless there is a seconder for Mr. SALES' motion, which I very much doubt, it cannot be debated let alone passed.

MR. SALES: It was not a motion, Sir. It was just a suggestion that I, as a member of that particular Select Committee, intend to raise it when it next meets.

QUESTIONS.

(1) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question :-

(a) Which Department is responsible for the provision of toilets in resite areas?

(b) Is there any regulation concerning the number of persons per toilet, such as that which exists for schools, that is, one toilet per twenty persons?

(c) Are regular checks made to see if the toilet accommodation is sufficient for persons living in squatter areas, since most areas are continually increasing?

(d) How long is it since any check was made on this matter in the Tai Hang Hill area, and what is the present situation there?

THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-

In regard to the first part of the question, the Urban Services Department is responsible for providing temporary dry latrines in resite and squatter areas.

In reply to the second part of the question, there is no hard and fast rule governing the scale of provision of latrines in these areas, but, as a working guide, latrines are normally provided in resite areas on the scale of 1 for every 100 inhabitants. This provision may be varied according to local circumstances, as, for example, where there are public latrines within a short distance of the area. In squatter areas latrines have been built over the years as and where demand arises.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I say that this is not the first time I brought up this problem—it is not a very delicate subject—but I did bring up the subject in connexion with Mt. Davis and Jordan Valley, and I am absolutely horrified to see one latrine for 100 persons. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you could give us some idea of what could be an acceptable and reasonable number for latrines. Also, am I to understand that with more than 23,000 people, there are only 37 latrines?

CHAIRMAN:-I have nothing really to add to what I have said. This is a working rule of 1 to 100, but if you would like us to look into it again, we will certainly do so.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I correct my original question. Dr. COOMBES has reminded me that, since our school was registered, it is 1 to 30 in schools. Mr. Chairman, would you say that the regulations that apply to private people do not apply to Government people?

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 61 60 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL hope that the beach will be in a good state before the start of the school holidays this year. As regards your remarks, Sir, about the position of the Council in respect of beaches and amenities in the New Territories generally, I can only say that I await your observations with keen interest. It was the subject of long and exhaustive exchanges between Mr. BERNACCHI and myself in this Council at the end of 1963 and in March 1964. MR. SALES:—Sir, I rise on a point of order. I listened with tremendous interest to your points, but I wonder whether you are aware, Sir, that you are not exactly within Standing Orders in rising to reply to me. If you did so as a member of my Select Committee, all you could do was to dissociate yourself from my remarks and not make a speech. In the circumstances, Sir, I would like to refer your conduct at this meeting to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee. CHAIRMAN:---Please do so. MR. BERNACCHI :-On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, unless there is a seconder for Mr. SALES' motion, which I very much doubt, it cannot be debated let alone passed. MR. SALES: It was not a motion, Sir. It was just a suggestion that I, as a member of that particular Select Committee, intend to raise it when it next meets. QUESTIONS. (1) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question :- (a) Which Department is responsible for the provision of toilets in resite areas? (b) Is there any regulation concerning the number of persons per toilet, such as that which exists for schools, that is, one toilet per twenty persons? (c) Are regular checks made to see if the toilet accommodation is sufficient for persons living in squatter areas, since most areas are continually increasing? (d) How long is it since any check was made on this matter in the Tai Hang Hill area, and what is the present situation there? THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:- In regard to the first part of the question, the Urban Services Department is responsible for providing temporary dry latrines in resite and squatter areas. In reply to the second part of the question, there is no hard and fast rule governing the scale of provision of latrines in these areas, but, as a working guide, latrines are normally provided in resite areas on the scale of 1 for every 100 inhabitants. This provision may be varied according to local circumstances, as, for example, where there are public latrines within a short distance of the area. In squatter areas latrines have been built over the years as and where demand arises. In regard to the third part of the question, the last overall review of latrine services in squatter areas was made at the beginning of 1964. Since then, further checks have been made in several areas and, as a result, improved services were provided. A fresh survey in all squatter areas in Hong Kong and Kowloon is now being made. On the last part of the question, the squatter settlement known as Tai Hang Hill has an estimated population of 600 persons and is part of a larger squatter settlement extending from Mount Butler to the slopes above Tin Hau Temple Road numbering some 23,000 people. The position in regard to latrine accommodation there was looked into recently. At the foot of the hill there is a public latrine with 22 compartments, which is common to Tai Hang Hill and adjacent squatter areas. Access can be conveniently gained from the lower slopes of Tai Hang Hill. The latrine is about 5 minutes walk from the upper levels, although the return journey may take longer. Also in the area, there are some 15 private tolerated latrines. The existing facilities appear to be adequate for the area. No request has been received for additional latrines. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I say that this is not the first time I brought up this problem—it is not a very delicate subject—but I did bring up the subject in connexion with Mt. Davis and Jordan Valley, and I am absolutely horrified to see one latrine for 100 persons. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you could give us some idea of what could be an acceptable and reasonable number for latrines. Also, am I to understand that with more than 23,000 people, there are only 37 latrines? CHAIRMAN:-I have nothing really to add to what I have said. This is a working rule of 1 to 100, but if you would like us to look into it again, we will certainly do so. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I correct my original question. Dr. COOMBES has reminded me that, since our school was registered, it is 1 to 30 in schools. Mr. Chairman, would you say that the regulations that apply to private people do not apply to Government people? Page 41 of 382 Page 41 Page 41 of 382

Baseline (Original)

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 61 60 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL hope that the beach will be in a good state before the start of the school holidays this year. As regards your remarks, Sir, about the position of the Council in respect of beaches and amenities in the New Territories generally, I can only say that I await your observations with keen interest. It was the subject of long and exhaustive exchanges between Mr. BERNACCHI and myself in this Council at the end of 1963 and in March 1964. MR. SALES:—Sir, I rise on a point of order. I listened with tremendous interest to your points, but I wonder whether you are aware, Sir, that you are not exactly within Standing Orders in rising to reply to me. If you did so as a member of my Select Committee, all you could do was to dissociate yourself from my remarks and not make a speech. In the circumstances, Sir, I would like to refer your conduct at this meeting to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee. CHAIRMAN:---Please do so. MR. BERNACCHI :-On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, unless there is a seconder for Mr. SALES' motion, which I very much doubt, it cannot be debated let alone passed. MR. SALES: It was not a motion, Sir. It was just a suggestion that I, as a member of that particular Select Committee, intend to raise it when it next meets. QUESTIONS. (1) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question :- (a) Which Department is responsible for the provision of toilets in resite areas? (b) Is there any regulation concerning the number of persons per toilet, such as that which exists for schools, that is, one toilet per twenty persons? (c) Are regular checks made to see if the toilet accommoda- tion is sufficient for persons living in squatter areas, since most areas are continually increasing? (d) How long is it since any check was made on this matter in the Tai Hang Hill area, and what is the present situation there? THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:- In regard to the first part of the question, the Urban Services Department is responsible for providing temporary dry latrines in resite and squatter areas. In reply to the second part of the question, there is no hard and fast rule governing the scale of provision of latrines in these areas, but, as a working guide, latrines are nor- mally provided in resite areas on the scale of 1 for every 100 inhabitants. This provision may be varied according to local circumstances, as, for example, where there are In public latrines within a short distance of the area. squatter areas latrines have been built over the years as and where demand arises. In regard to the third part of the question, the last overall review of latrine services in squatter areas was made at the beginning of 1964. Since then, further checks have been made in several areas and, as a result, improved services were provided. A fresh survey in all squatter areas in Hong Kong and Kowloon is now being made. On the last part of the question, the squatter settlement known as Tai Hang Hill has an estimated population of 600 persons and is part of a larger squatter settlement extend- ing from Mount Butler to the slopes above Tin Hau Temple Road numbering some 23,000 people. The posi- tion in regard to latrine accommodation there was looked into recently. At the foot of the hill there is a public latrine with 22 compartments, which is common to Tai Hang Hill and adjacent squatter areas. Access can be con- veniently gained from the lower slopes of Tai Hang Hill. The latrine is about 5 minutes walk from the upper levels, although the return journey may take longer. Also in the area, there are some 15 private tolerated latrines. The No existing facilities appear to be adequate for the area. request has been received for additional latrines. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I say that this is not the first time I brought up this problem-it is not a very delicate subject—but I did bring up the subject in connexion with Mt. Davis and Jordan Valley, and I am absolutely horrified to see one latrine for 100 persons. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you could give us some idea of what could be an acceptable and reasonable number for latrines. Also, am I to under- stand that with more than 23,000 people, there are only 37 latrines? CHAIRMAN:-I have nothing really to add to what I have said. This is a working rule of 1 to 100, but if you would like us to look into it again, we will certainly do so. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I correct my original ques- tion. Dr. COOMBES has reminded me that, since our school was regis- tered, it is 1 to 30 in schools. Mr. Chairman, would you say that the regulations that apply to private people do not apply to Government people? Page 41 of 382

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

hope that the beach will be in a good state before the start of the school holidays this year.

CHAIRMAN:---Please do so.

MR. BERNACCHI :-On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, unless there is a seconder for Mr. SALES' motion, which I very much doubt, it cannot be debated let alone passed.

MR. SALES: It was not a motion, Sir. It was just a suggestion that I, as a member of that particular Select Committee, intend to raise it when it next meets.

QUESTIONS.

(1) MRS. E. ELLIOTT asked the following question :-

(a) Which Department is responsible for the provision of

toilets in resite areas?

(b) Is there any regulation concerning the number of persons per toilet, such as that which exists for schools, that is, one toilet per twenty persons?

(c) Are regular checks made to see if the toilet accommoda- tion is sufficient for persons living in squatter areas, since most areas are continually increasing?

(d) How long is it since any check was made on this matter in the Tai Hang Hill area, and what is the present situation there?

THE CHAIRMAN replied as follows:-

In regard to the first part of the question, the Urban Services Department is responsible for providing temporary dry latrines in resite and squatter areas.

In reply to the second part of the question, there is no hard and fast rule governing the scale of provision of latrines in these areas, but, as a working guide, latrines are nor- mally provided in resite areas on the scale of 1 for every 100 inhabitants. This provision may be varied according to local circumstances, as, for example, where there are In public latrines within a short distance of the area. squatter areas latrines have been built over the years as and where demand arises.

In regard to the third part of the question, the last overall review of latrine services in squatter areas was made at the beginning of 1964. Since then, further checks have been made in several areas and, as a result, improved services were provided. A fresh survey in all squatter areas in Hong Kong and Kowloon is now being made. On the last part of the question, the squatter settlement known as Tai Hang Hill has an estimated population of 600 persons and is part of a larger squatter settlement extend- ing from Mount Butler to the slopes above Tin Hau Temple Road numbering some 23,000 people. The posi- tion in regard to latrine accommodation there was looked into recently. At the foot of the hill there is a public latrine with 22 compartments, which is common to Tai Hang Hill and adjacent squatter areas. Access can be con- veniently gained from the lower slopes of Tai Hang Hill. The latrine is about 5 minutes walk from the upper levels, although the return journey may take longer. Also in the area, there are some 15 private tolerated latrines. The No existing facilities appear to be adequate for the area. request has been received for additional latrines. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I say that this is not the first time I brought up this problem-it is not a very delicate subject—but I did bring up the subject in connexion with Mt. Davis and Jordan Valley, and I am absolutely horrified to see one latrine for 100 persons. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if you could give us some idea of what could be an acceptable and reasonable number for latrines. Also, am I to under- stand that with more than 23,000 people, there are only 37 latrines? CHAIRMAN:-I have nothing really to add to what I have said. This is a working rule of 1 to 100, but if you would like us to look into it again, we will certainly do so.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I correct my original ques- tion. Dr. COOMBES has reminded me that, since our school was regis- tered, it is 1 to 30 in schools. Mr. Chairman, would you say that the regulations that apply to private people do not apply to Government people?

1965 — Page 41

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